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Gravel Pit 1 year, 3 months ago.
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Financial independence is important for your sovereignty.
Achieving financial independence was one of my first goals. I started with nothing, and actually made it–then lost it immediately through divorce. I thought I’d talk about what I did to get there, and what I’m doing now as my plan to get back.
Inititially I did it through working hard at my job. Like, crazy hard. No sleep and 60-100 hour weeks. I was in my twenties and driven toward survival. The work improved my skill level, which created newer and better opportunities, and became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I had a high-paying job for about five years, and low-paying the rest of the time. But even without this job, the principles I used would still work, but just take a few years longer. Here they are:
I paid off debt first. Debt is like cancer. It multiplies and corrodes your savings. Wife and I took the first two years channeling all our income to paying off our student loans. Once it was gone, it was gone!
Tracked income and expenses. Then created a budget based on what we needed to live off.
Spent as little as possible. They call this Living Below Your Means (LBYM). For me it meant No eating out. No movies. No subscriptions. Nothing. Entertainment was simpler, more creative–and better. I now love walks in the park and would choose it over a concert any day. Be cheap.
I saved everything. I had been living in poverty, and realized that work was the one chance I had to escape it. Since I worked as hard as I did, blowing my hard-earned money on anything made absolutely no sense! This was something my wife didn’t understand, largely because she didn’t earn it.
Honestly, that’s all I did to hit our financial goal.
Now that I’m starting again, here are changes I’m making:Investing in stocks. Previously, my savings were all in CD’s. One thing I didn’t think about was inflation, which is a loss of about 3% per year. So at a 3% APY on a CD, minus 3% inflation, you just break even. But wait! That interest is taxable–so really, you lose money. Talking with people who’ve retired early, it turns out most of them put their money in total market index funds which track the large movements of the stock markets. I read a book The Boglehead’s Guide to Investing, which has a funny title but laid out the plan. Had I been in index funds, I would have tripled my investment. So now I put most of what I make into index funds as a long-term plan, plus bonds as a stabilizer and shorter-term plan.
Work means trading my flesh for money. The idea of money generating new money is appealing, but elusive. I’ve found the Boglehead path to be a reasonable place to start in navigating that field.
Multiple income streams. Important for me because my work is by nature volatile and not always there. And without my wife’s supplementary income, I now need to generate my own. The gimmicky side jobs like online surveys don’t really work. Instead, I got a side job to fill the hours that used to be spent on dates and restaurants. Now I get paid (a little) to socialize and do light physical work. Also trying out real estate. My cousin retired in his mid thirties as an investor-landlord and encouraged me to just go for buying my first rental property. It has been a massive headache and has not rented yet. Once it does, it should be a good side income stream. But it isn’t yet.
Extremely low living. I’m challenging myself to live as inexpensively as possible, to see how little I need to spend in a year. To gauge the minimum limit I need for survival. Back to no eating out. But now I’m also going to food pantries–which especially helps as I’ve been unemployed from my main job this year. Letting my house drop to shivering temperatures in the winter and wearing a coat. All the unnecessary things are gone. Except maintaining the rental house. Ive learned that psychology demands slightly more, and did buy a canoe this summer (last year it was guns), but I’m selling it and trying to avoid spending on hobbies for now.
One thing I learned at work is to go for the highest paying return for my time. I follow the money, not the dream, as I once read in AARP Magazine–and it turns out in the end that means (hopefully) you have both.
Marriage and divorce was the biggest liability I ever got mixed up in. I’d be a retired millionaire today if I had kept what I made after taxes. It’s a lesson too big to unlearn.
There’s a lot of luck and chaos involved, but the skills to manage both aren’t rocket science and can be learned.
There is an online community called FIRE (Financial Independence / Retire Early) where people share similar stories and go into more detail across several web sites. Check it out if financial independence is on your bucket list.
"Once you’ve taken care of the basics, there’s very little in this world for which your life is worth deferring." -David Hansson. "It’s not when women are mean or nasty that anything is out of the ordinary. It’s when they are NICE to you that you have to be on high alert..." -Jackinov.
Well done broski. Good for you.
Peace is > piece.
I’m mostly doing the same thing. I’m cheating a bit by living in my semi. No housing or car expenses at all, so I’m saving the majority of my income.
I’ve been going into index funds since day one. Diversifying is the safest bet in the stock market and indexing is the most accurate way to do that.
Murph ~ There is nothing brave or manly about entering into a contract with somebody which allows them to take your money, assets, children, and decades of your future income on a mere whim.
I’m mostly doing the same thing. I’m cheating a bit by living in my semi. No housing or car expenses at all, so I’m saving the majority of my income.
I’ve been going into index funds since day one. Diversifying is the safest bet in the stock market and indexing is the most accurate way to do that.You’ll probably beat me to FI. Actually, with no overhead it sounds like you could be already there.
"Once you’ve taken care of the basics, there’s very little in this world for which your life is worth deferring." -David Hansson. "It’s not when women are mean or nasty that anything is out of the ordinary. It’s when they are NICE to you that you have to be on high alert..." -Jackinov.
I have but one single silver dollar!
I have the means to protect my silver dollar from confiscation.
I have reached financial independence.
Financial independence is the point in life when your finances are separated
from the finances of any other authority on earth and by definition you are
not sharing a purse with the rest of society.The amount of financial instruments is not relevant unless you measure Independence with counterfeit fiat currency.
I measure independence in security and happiness but as we all know my mental competency has been called into question on many occasions.financial independence is a term I will try and define at the urban dictionary today..
used in a sentence: When I took an open publicly recognized vow of poverty and give all I owned to a higher authority I became independent of worry about my financial independence.
No one can steal what you do not have. I am A happy broke but very rich man.
In a practical way of thinking which is the norm for most hard working men (not the mentally challenged like myself)
Work and worry about finances go hand in hand.
I know very few who are like myself.I am a self taught law scholar and that alone will bring ones mental competency into question.
published a moment ago and its A true and correct lawful definition of legal domicile. heaven is freedom gentlemen and I was created to bring it down to A level that would be more easily understood..
11:26 AM (24 minutes ago)
to me
Thanks for defining legal domicile!Editors read your definition and decided to publish it on Urban Dictionary.
It should appear here soon: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=legal+domicile
Urban Dictionary
—–
legal domicile
1.The legal authority that persons choose to protect and provide for themselves.
2.Indicates the chosen legal jurisdiction a human resides inside of.
3.The most important life choice a person will ever make.
When I consummated a heavenly marriage to the truth that is in my King, savior and now my Husband Jesus Christ,
we honeymooned in my heavenly fathers legal domicile forever.Yes gentlemen My father is publishing already! I know its his spirit guiding me to share what he taught me to the world not just to a small few at a couple of web-sites..
watch out for the crazy ones they may have unseen help..I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.
Published on the first submission..
Thanks for defining financial independence!
Editors read your definition and decided to publish it on Urban Dictionary.
It should appear here soon: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=financial+independence
Urban Dictionary
—–
financial independence
Financial independence is the point in life when your finances are separated
from the finances of any other authority on earth and by definition you are
not sharing a purse with the rest of society.
The amount of financial instruments is not relevant unless you measure wealth with counterfeit fiat currency.
I measure wealth in security and happiness.I am happy to have one single silver dollar and a gun to protect it from confiscation therefor i have attained financial independence and I want for nothing more because the lord is my Shepard and I must not want.
I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.
Anonymous38Good post. MGTOW is freedom, financial independence is freedom. I’m not actually ‘worth’ that much, but I live in a great pad, with low overheads, and I live well – by which I mean good food, drink, socialising and toys. No debt, paid off car, cash in the bank. Just waiting for an opportunity of some sort, one with the potential to make a lot of money. Making good money means paying off the pad and reaching the point where I can work as little as possible.
Excellent tips.
However, I think it is a good idea to treat yourself to something special every now and then, as long as you budget for it.
A session with a high class escort, a trip some where or tickets to an awesome concert, etc. are morale boosters.
After all, you don’t want to be the richest person in the graveyard or a rich senior citizen who can’t do anything with his money because his mind and body are shot.
As for investing, I agree with you. But after ten years of non-stop growth something has got to give. And whatever goes up inevitably comes down. I’m out of the market myself but will enter after the crash and buy cheap.
The greatest tragedy in life is to spend your whole life fishing only to discover that it was not fish you were after. - Henry David Thoreau
Don’t forget to have spare money to save your close family members who made Bad decisions. Oh the Joys of life.
You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home
Nice thread, Stealth. Congratulations too.
However, I think it is a good idea to treat yourself to something special every now and then, as long as you budget for it.
A session with a high class escort, a trip some where or tickets to an awesome concert, etc. are morale boosters.
After all, you don’t want to be the richest person in the graveyard or a rich senior citizen who can’t do anything with his money because his mind and body are shot.Agreed. Personally, if I want something special or fancy, I save the money for it, then buy it. Not getting into debt for treats is the reasonable and mature thing to do, in my opinion.
I too agree that financial independence should have a very high priority. However, I think it’s important to balance that goal with a reasonable quality of life. It’s possible to painstakingly accumulate a lot of money and then die before being able to enjoy any of it.
We just don't realize life's most significant events while they're happening. Back then, I thought, "Well, there'll be other days". I didn't realize that that was the only day. - "Moonlight" Graham
Anonymous38I too agree that financial independence should have a very high priority. However, I think it’s important to balance that goal with a reasonable quality of life. It’s possible to painstakingly accumulate a lot of money and then die before being able to enjoy any of it.
Seconded. This ties into Stealth’s other post re now and later. It’s a balancing act, living decadently/extravagantly isn’t good for you but neither is being a miser.
I too agree that financial independence should have a very high priority. However, I think it’s important to balance that goal with a reasonable quality of life. It’s possible to painstakingly accumulate a lot of money and then die before being able to enjoy any of it.
Seconded. This ties into Stealth’s other post re now and later. It’s a balancing act, living decadently/extravagantly isn’t good for you but neither is being a miser.
The Western culture problem is that people think of you get a 6 figure job, you should immediately have a visible lifestyle that reflects those earnings for the next 30 years using credit to cash in on it today.
The obvious shortcoming, what if you don’t earn that for the next 30 years, life circumstances change. By over subscribing to your future income, you can make it so you have absolutely nothing to show for years of high income work. Can you imagine having a 200k a year income and a negative net worth on the bet that one day you’ll probably make it positive. 😛
What if you don’t take the time to actually consider what you’re signing up for and over subscribe to what you can even handle by accident. I had a relative that, with 50k in credit card debt and 4 brand new cars, had a hard time buying food on 150k+ a year. That happens when you allot 1k a month just to credit card payments.
I talked with another driver at my company a few months ago that pulled up in a brand new 48k$ truck, and he’s like 60 years old. Man, it’s almost time for you to retire and you’re buying brand new vehicles on 6 year loans.
The solution is so simple really. DON’T subscribe to future earnings, ever. No one needs to.
Murph ~ There is nothing brave or manly about entering into a contract with somebody which allows them to take your money, assets, children, and decades of your future income on a mere whim.
Oh and always look at expenses as a matter of lifetime earnings, it will give you serious perspective. My generation thinks spending 5-10 years income on a house is the norm. Seriously consider what’s so important about having a pretty upscale house that it’s worth that much work.
Murph ~ There is nothing brave or manly about entering into a contract with somebody which allows them to take your money, assets, children, and decades of your future income on a mere whim.
Good points, Nags4Cash. Well said.
Anonymous38The Western culture problem is that people think of you get a 6 figure job, you should immediately have a visible lifestyle that reflects those earnings for the next 30 years using credit to cash in on it today.
Two things – impressing others and improving their own life. But it only impresses numpties and most of those ‘lifestyle upgrades’ don’t really improve their quality of life.
- Doing the things I want
Health
Time
Giving/sharing/connecting
General mental stabilityAre my ingredients for good quality of life
All my money goes to liquor.
I’m a 25 years old drunk.
Money is God.
The Western culture problem is that people think of you get a 6 figure job, you should immediately have a visible lifestyle that reflects those earnings for the next 30 years using credit to cash in on it today.
It amazes me how many people make 50k a year and live like they make 100k a year, and how few people make 100k a year and live like they make 50k a year.
I find it ironic that people will put themselves into deep debt living beyond their means in the pursuit of material possessions, but the more debt they have, the more interest they’ll pay, and the less money they’ll have to actually spend on the material possessions they’re chasing. You might miss out on a few things early on in life, but ultimately avoiding the debt trap will let have a lot more later on as you won’t be p~~~ing money away on interest.
I know a lot of people that just do dumb s~~~…like finance a car, and its time to buy a new car when that one is paid off. It doesn’t matter if they have a 5 year old car that is in great shape…its paid off…time to trade it in and get a new one! The idea that they could do something like just drive the paid off car a few more years, keep making the car payments they were making into their savings account, and go pay cash for the next car and never pay a dime in auto loan interest again just doesn’t register.
All my money goes to liquor.
I’m a 25 years old drunk.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
GOAT, I was exactly like you at 25. Get ready for your reckoning bro. Hope you survive. Love the Atheist quote by the way. I love Hitchens Harris, Dawkins (at least their atheist work, forget about the blue pill s~~~)
Don’t be a f~~~ing a statistic. Find a way to beat the alcohol addiction. It will probably beat you first, (which is what happened to me) but if you live, you probably wont drink anymore… and that my friend is the beginning of a very bright future. Dont die!
Never met an alcoholic that was financially independent, Im sure there are some but they dont last long. And you sure as s~~~ aint gonna retire early, while spending $100 at a bar every night…
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