Financial Disclosure in Divorce

[VanXingParticipant 98]

Hi Fellas,

I’m about to fill out a financial disclosure for my divorce proceedings.

My attorney said that I have to also put down my pre-marital assets in the disclosure with supporting documents. I lived very frugally prior to marriage saved a lot in my 401k and other retirement accounts. She did as well, but I may have 100k more in retirement assets than she does. Most of it is pre-marital.

My question is will the judge penalize me for saving more prior to marriage by giving her more assets in the divorce? She makes the same income as me and we have a daughter together that stays with her most of the time.

If you have actual examples from your own divorce or those of your friends in the same situation that would be great.

There is also a 5k property tax bill and about 5k in attorney fees that I have not paid yet. Should I pay those off before completing the disclosure showing assets that’s 10k lower?

She is technically suppose to pay for 1/2 the property taxes.

Thanks in advance,
Van

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

I don’t think pre-marital assets can be considered as part of a divorce settlement, however, I’m not an attorney.

Your attorney may just be wanting to see how long he can draw this out & still get paid.

See “Divorce Corp” documentary.

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[Anonymous 42]

Her lawyer is much stronger than yours no matter the case or the court.

Just get the barbaric ritual over and never do it again.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Be thorough.don’t hide anything, plus or minus. If they think yuo’re hiding somehing and go on a hunting expedition through your financial past, you’ll end up broke.

[Anonymous 0]

VanXing wrote:

Hi Fellas,

I’m about to fill out a financial disclosure for my divorce proceedings.

My attorney said that I have to also put down my pre-marital assets in the disclosure with supporting documents. I lived very frugally prior to marriage saved a lot in my 401k and other retirement accounts. She did as well, but I may have 100k more in retirement assets than she does. Most of it is pre-marital.

My question is will the judge penalize me for saving more prior to marriage by giving her more assets in the divorce? She makes the same income as me and we have a daughter together that stays with her most of the time.

If you have actual examples from your own divorce or those of your friends in the same situation that would be great.

There is also a 5k property tax bill and about 5k in attorney fees that I have not paid yet. Should I pay those off before completing the disclosure showing assets that’s 10k lower?

She is technically suppose to pay for 1/2 the property taxes.

Thanks in advance,
Van

Ultimately you want to ask your attorney this stuff. Assuming this is the first draft of the financial disclosure form, then you should be filling it out for him and him alone. Once you’ve filled it out and given it to your attorney, then you and he get togther and go over it with a magnifying glass before finalizing it and forwarding it to the other side.

Anyway, the general rule is that anything pre-marital isn’t included in the basket of joint assets to be split between the two parties. You keep 100% of pre-marital assets. And the fact that you keep your pre-marital assets shouldn’t have any effect on the division of joint assets. That’s done separately, according to standardized formulas.

Having said all that, there are some ways that pre-marital assets can come to be considered joint assets. Also, if the standard formulas effectively leave your ex destitute, the final split can be bumped upward in her favor just for humanitarian reasons, irrespective of the existence of any pre-marital assets.

This is why you want to run this stuff past your attorney. He can give you a general idea of how the split will go and warn you if there are any special factors in your case or due to state laws.

Anyway, fill out the financial disclosure in full, and tell your attorney you would like to go over it with him before he forwards it on. You and he can go over it and see if there are any ways it can be jiggered in your favor (in terms of paying or not paying bills and fees) before finalizing it and submitting it to the other side or to the court.

(I’m not an attorney, by the way. Just divorced twice.)

[Anonymous 43]

not a lawyer, just a dude further down the road than you.

listen to lawyer. what sounds logical in the real world has no bearing in court.

do not lie on disclosure forms. there are documents that can be subpoenaed easily. you are on trial. yes that kind of trial, do not perjure your self.

rounding and estimates will probably work…if she probes your s~~~, that opens her up for closer examination.

you can not expect to hide more than a couple grand by fudging numbers…not worth it.

I was sahd and had no assets. her assets came under sharp scrutiny, and she tried hiding money, got caught, and I was awarded all $2000. lawyer ate that up over time. the house equity, also sucked up by lawyer.

she paid me maintenance, also sucked up by lawyer.

I got half her 401k, after 7 years has more than doubled.

so, I would say put it all out there, she has a vague sense of your money. you do not want her to say in court, where is this account? should have $200K in it. that would be bad.

very bad, expensive bad, jail time bad.

[TaxGuyParticipant]

I think it depends on what state you are in. In some states, you keep your pre-marital assets and in some you don’t. Look up community property versus joint property. I can’t remember which one community property is for sure, but I think in those states you keep your pre-marital assets. Your attorney will know for sure. I had a friend that joked that at his bachelor party he gave everyone stickers with his name on them to put on all of his stuff.

And, I agree, don’t lie. It won’t do you any good. You’ll have to provide an account balance anyway.

Good luck.

Order the good wine

[Anonymous 0]

The following website has a section entitled “Divorce and Property Division Laws by State.” Just scroll down to the fifth section and click on your state. It should clarify the rules on what’s considered “marital property” (that is, joint property) vs. “separate property” (belonging to one spouse alone).

Link: http://www.divorcenet.com/topics/property#

[BeerParticipant 11832]

I always thought capital gains “earned” post marriage from investments prior to getting married were considered joint property because they were “earned” during the marriage…like if you had a 500k brokerage account going into the marriage, divorced 5 years later, and the account had grown to a million, she’d be “entitled” to a portion of the 500k worth of capital gains, which is why I always thought marriage was an extra s~~~ty deal for guys bringing assets into it.

[Anonymous 0]

Beer wrote:

I always thought capital gains “earned” post marriage from investments prior to getting married were considered joint property because they were “earned” during the marriage…like if you had a 500k brokerage account going into the marriage, divorced 5 years later, and the account had grown to a million, she’d be “entitled” to a portion of the 500k worth of capital gains, which is why I always thought marriage was an extra s~~~ty deal for guys bringing assets into it.

Heheh. Now you’re getting into more complicated stuff. Anyway, here’s the short answer:

Assets appreciate actively, which means as a result of improvements or actions by its owner, or passively, which means as a result of changes in the market.

[….]

In dual-classification, equitable distribution states, active appreciation that results from marital efforts is marital property while passive appreciation remains separate property.

For the long answer, see the following link: http://www.divorcesource.com/ds/encyclopedia/appreciation-of-assets-1720.shtml

[Anonymous 0]

TaxGuy wrote:

I think it depends on what state you are in. In some states, you keep your pre-marital assets and in some you don’t.

I checked, and you’re right. In the “Kitchen Sink States” you don’t necessarily get to keep pre-marital assets. That’s 14-plus states, which is more than I thought.

In the United States, there are two general models of property distribution: all property and dual classification. In the all property routine (also called the Kitchen Sink states), courts divide equitably any and all property of the parties “regardless of when and how acquired.” In dual classification states, property is classified marital and separate. Dual classification states then are further classified as either equitable distribution or community property […]

Link: http://www.divorcesource.com/ds/encyclopedia/distribution-of-property-2011.shtml

The Kitchen Sink States are Connecticut, Indiana, Kansas, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, North and South Dakota, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, and Wyoming. Eight other states include separate property when the court finds a need. These are Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Iowa, Minnesota, Ohio, Wisconsin.

Link: http://www.divorcesource.com/ds/encyclopedia/kitchen-sink-states-2227.shtml

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

Solo MAN’S Wisdom wrote:

I don’t think pre-marital assets can be considered as part of a divorce settlement, however, I’m not an attorney.

Your attorney may just be wanting to see how long he can draw this out & still get paid.

See “Divorce Corp” documentary.

In at least in one state, a mans LIFETIME assets (not just during the marriage) are fair game.

Old Bill posted a divorce primer a few months back.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Anonymous 1]

What is hers is hers. What is yours is hers plus or minus four boxes

Marriage is an assload of f~~~.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Anonymous wrote:

Heheh. Now you’re getting into more complicated stuff. Anyway, here’s the short answer:

Well I guess that isn’t quite as bad as I thought…but I’m in a kitchen sink state so in that respect its worse than I thought lol.

[HitmanParticipant]

VanXing,
i filled one out and was quite honest.
no lies equals no worrys.
listen to the men above,
good advice.

[WarfishParticipant 408]

My parents created an irrevocable trust fund naming me as the beneficiary, it has it’s own tax id number. It only has about $30K in it right now.
What are the thoughts of putting this on a financial disclosure form? Seems to me it would be extremely difficult to link the account back to me unless you had an inkling that one existed.

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

Marriage is an assload of f~~~.

Quote of 2016. Right here ^^^^^^^^^

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[narwhalParticipant]

Warfish wrote:

My parents created an irrevocable trust fund naming me as the beneficiary, it has it’s own tax id number. It only has about $30K in it right now.
What are the thoughts of putting this on a financial disclosure form? Seems to me it would be extremely difficult to link the account back to me unless you had an inkling that one existed.

Was the trust fund created before or during marriage? If before, I don’t think it’s considered an asset of the marriage, but depends on the state. If while married, it probably is, but check with your lawyer.

It wasn’t asked, but regarding credit card debit, I would chose to take all of it in exchange for other assets. The reason is that credit card companies to do acknowledge divorce decrees will still mess up your credit if they are not paid. Can you trust your ex not to screw you over?

Personally, for all of these type of questions, I’d check from 3 sources. #1 is your lawyer. They are there to represent you, but ultimately to serve themselves and not always competent. #2 is yourself. Always read through all your documents. Lawyers want you to be it’s a foreign language, but it isn’t. If something doesn’t sound right or fair to you, it could be a mistake, your lawyer’s incompetence, or your lawyer trying to take advantage of your ignorance. #3 get a 2nd opinion from the internet or knowledgeable source, especially where you aren’t comfortable with what your lawyer is telling you.

Ok. Then do it.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

narwhal wrote:

It wasn’t asked, but regarding credit card debit, I would chose to take all of it in exchange for other assets. The reason is that credit card companies to do acknowledge divorce decrees will still mess up your credit if they are not paid. Can you trust your ex not to screw you over?

Probably a smart move. I have a buddy who lost the house in divorce, and the wife had a few year window post divorce where she was supposed to refinance to get his name off the mortgage. She cries she can’t do it with just her income, so she’ll have to sell, but they purposefully picked a town with good schools, so he doesn’t want her to lose the house until the kids are done with school in a few more years and he isn’t going to push the issue until then.

In the mean time he’s f~~~ed because he wants to buy himself a condo but he can’t qualify for a mortgage because his name is already on one and it makes his debt to income ratio look horrible, even though a small mortgage on a condo is no more than rent. Its literally going to be more than 10 years post divorce when marital debt that was her responsibility stops f~~~ing him…and even then who knows, the housing market might take a dip again and put her under water when the youngest is done with school and she’ll walk away from the house and trash his credit in the end instead of doing the refi.

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