FInally.. something that explains my cognitive dissonance!

[MadScientistParticipant 131]

Hey guys, I posted this over in Marriage and Divorce and I realized.. it was really an introduction so.. here it is 🙂

===============

Hey folks,

Sooo… yeah. I’m a divorced, late forties man with a good career (now) who has a story to tell, as, I can see, do so many on this forum.

I want to start with the statement that I am an Egalitarianist. What that means is that I reject special treatment or consideration according to gender TYPE. What that does NOT mean is that I think situation or context don’t matter. For example, it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that women are, by their nature, better socially than men and men, by their nature, are better creators. So if you have children, and a solid, respectful relationship with a spouse, you would see a situation similiar to what we would expect in a ‘Traditionalist’ format. As many others have pointed out, there is a REASON why the traditional structure worked.

I don’t believe that women or men should be restricted to their gender roles, nor should they receive special treatment (legally). Social conventions are another thing, and any social group should be free to create any conventions that it desires to denote ‘membership’, as long as it does not violate the individual rights of the members, or prevent them from leaving if they should wish.

So I am essentially an extreme libertarian, who thinks that the laws should be written to enhance personal liberty and fairness in the marketplace of money and ideas.

I say all of this because my story is unusual, in the broader context of relationships. My marriage was Open. What this meant to us was that we were free to date other people, as long as that didn’t impact on each other in a practical way, and we gave each other veto power over each others activities outside of our home. Simple arrangement, easy to understand. No, I didn’t know that a man could be held accountable for child support of another man’s child, but I did insist that my wife get an IUD before we embarked on this adventure together. I loved her, and I wanted what was best for her and myself.

Anyway, this went on for some time, happily. Our marriage lasted longer because of it. Because we each were able to get some sort of boost from outside the relationship. Inside it, things got grim pretty quick.. within 3 years of being married, we were already at a sort of seven year point, with respect to sex and compassion. Of course, I assumed it was my fault, and worked harder to try to figure it out.

I took it on the chin. I worked harder, made more money, and bought that single family home she wanted, and at the same time put her through technical school for a profession she was very enthusiastic about. This was all done at great sacrifice, and put me into some amount of debt. For 2 years I drove her 1 hour into school, every day, then went to work, then picked her up, then went home. I was the one who cooked dinner then, and I even helped with  the housework, since she was studying for her career. and we had agreed that once she ‘got out there’ the pressure would come off my shoulders a bit and I might be able to take more risks, get some more time off, and recover. Build a better future, you see.

Well, that never happened. She never actually went to work in her field as more than a patsy to other professionals. When we had invested 15k in equipment for her work, she STILL refused to take any initiative, stating that she was ‘going through a rough patch’ and other such things.

Then she brought up children. Thank goodness I insisted that no, we are not going to have any children unless she had her career off and running, and she was productive, and had at least managed to pay back the effort and money that had been put into it.

It all went downhill from there. I got less and less attention or compassion, and was completely taken for granted. Her parents were clearly disappointed we had not had children, but I told them the same thing.. we will have children once she proves she can work, and uses her skills to produce income. I still thought this was my fault though.. that I was somehow not providing her with the proper motivation or environment.. amazing right?

In the end, I realized this was going nowhere, and I worked things out so that the marriage would end.. going through a lot of painful self blaming in the process. I even convinced myself that I had held her back by ‘helping too much’. It was a dark time. I became near homeless for awhile, and moved cross country to find work to try and dig myself back out. My house had to be sold in a down market, and so I lost all of that money as well. I was totally broke and bankrupt. If it had not been for the incredibly generous help of an amazing friend (who is my best friend to this day and, yes, a Woman.. they do exist. Mind you, she’s an Artist and not American) I would not have made it out.

And my Ex still had the gall to demand I pay her credit card bills. “Honey, I’m borderline homeless.. I dont have any money to give you” to which she said “What? What about me? I’m sitting here looking at debt I can’t repay!” (this while living rent free with her parents and not working). Thankfully the divorce did not include alimony, and I spoke to a lawyer about that.. he said “actually you could ask her for money, considering you put her through school with the clear intention of her becoming a professional. I’t wouldn’t stick, but it would make it hard for her to prove she can’t support herself, or that she missed an opportunity to earn money while married to you”. With that threat on the table she backed down and signed a 50/50 split of basically nothing, since I had no money or a house by that time, and had already paid more than my share of the credit card debt.

Now, I am earning six figures again, have rebuilt my life, and am moving forward. It has taken me almost 5 years to recover from this pit of despair I went through and now I am facing 50 with few prospects. I’ve had a few blisteringly hot girlfriends in the meantime and let them all go for reasons Im sure you guys have all been through. Im working on it.. JUST got rid of 100% of my debts, have a little money in the bank, and am working on the future.. not sure where to go from here, but MGTOW has given me hope.. that I wasn’t crazy. I have been in such darkness for the last few years, but now I can see a way out.

This is what hit me when I started listening to and reading the material on MGTOW and MRA.. I am a very well educated person and even I was duped by the bulls~~~. I realized I have been moving towards MGHOW for many years, and only now do I have a frame and full understanding of WHY THIS HAPPENED. I’m not Crazy! I want to shout it from the rooftops!

Thanks for reading this folks, and, as Paul Atreides said once: “Father.. the Sleeper has awakened!”

I think my Dad would have been proud. Peace.

[Anonymous 1]

Geez! CSS, CSS everywhere!

Hey folks,
Sooo… yeah. I’m a divorced, late forties man with a good career (now) who has a story to tell, as, I can see, do so many on this forum.
I want to start with the statement that I am an Egalitarianist. What that means to me s that I reject special treatment or consideration according to gender TYPE. What that does NOT mean is that I think situation or context don’t matter. For example, it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that women are, by their nature, better socially than men and men, by their nature, are better creators. So if you have children, and a solid, respectful relationship with a spouse, you would see a situation similar to what we would expect in a ‘Traditionalist’ format. As many have pointed out, there is a REASON why the traditional structure worked.

I don’t believe that women or men should be restricted to their gender roles, nor should they receive special treatment (legally). Social conventions are another thing, and any social group should be free to create any conventions that it desires to denote ‘membership’, as long as it does not violate the individual rights of the members, or prevent them from leaving if they should wish.
So I am essentially an extreme libertarian, who thinks that the laws should be written to enhance personal liberty and fairness in the marketplace of money and ideas.
I say all of this because my story is unusual, in the broader context of relationships. My marriage was Open. What this meant to us was that we were free to date other people, as long as that didn’t impact on each other in a practical way, and we gave each other veto power over each others activities outside of our home. Simple arrangement, easy to understand. No, I didn’t know that a man could be held accountable for child support of another man’s child, but I did insist that my wife get an IUD before we embarked on this adventure together. I loved her, and I wanted what was best for her and myself.
Anyway, this went on for some time, happily. Our marriage lasted longer because of it. Because we each were able to get some sort of boost from outside the relationship. Inside it, things got grim pretty quick.. within 3 years of being married, we were already at a sort of seven year point, with respect to sex and compassion. Of course, I assumed it was my fault, and worked harder to try to figure it out.
I took it on the chin. I worked harder, made more money, and bought that single family home she wanted, and at the same time put her through technical school for a profession she was very enthusiastic about. This was all done at great sacrifice, and put me into some amount of debt. For 2 years I drove her 1 hour into school, every day, then went to work, then picked her up, then went home. I was the one who cooked dinner then, and I even helped with  the housework, since she was studying for her career. and we had agreed that once she ‘got out there’ the pressure would come off my shoulders a bit and I might be able to take more risks, get some more time off, and recover. Build a better future, you see.
Well, that never happened. She never actually went to work in her field as more than a patsy to other professionals. When we had invested 15k in equipment for her work, she STILL refused to take any initiative, stating that she was ‘going through a rough patch’ and other such things.
Then she brought up children. Thank goodness I insisted that no, we are not going to have any children unless she had her career off and running, and she was productive, and had at least managed to pay back the effort and money that had been put into it.
It all went downhill from there. I got less and less attention or compassion, and was completely taken for granted. Her parents were clearly disappointed we had not had children, but I told them the same thing.. we will have children once she proves she can work, and uses her skills to produce income. I still thought this was my fault though.. that I was somehow not providing her with the proper motivation or environment.. amazing right?
In the end, I realized this was going nowhere, and I worked things out so that the marriage would end.. going through a lot of painful self blaming in the process. I even convinced myself that I had held her back by ‘helping too much’. It was a dark time. I became near homeless for awhile, and moved cross country to find work to try and dig myself back out. My house had to be sold in a down market, and so I lost all of that money as well. I was totally broke and bankrupt. If it had not been for the incredibly generous help of an amazing friend (who is my best friend to this day and, yes, a Woman.. they do exist. Mind you, she’s an Artist and not American) I would not have made it out.
And my Ex still had the gall to demand I pay her credit card bills. “Honey, I’m borderline homeless.. I dont have any money to give you” to which she said “What? What about me? I’m sitting here looking at debt I can’t repay!” (this while living rent free with her parents and not working). Thankfully the divorce did not include alimony, and I spoke to a lawyer about that.. he said “actually you could ask her for money, considering you put her through school with the clear intention of her becoming a professional. I’t wouldn’t stick, but it would make it hard for her to prove she can’t support herself, or that she missed an opportunity to earn money while married to you”. With that threat on the table she backed down and signed a 50/50 split of basically nothing, since I had no money or a house by that time, and had already paid more than my share of the credit card debt.
Now, I am earning six figures again, have rebuilt my life, and am moving forward. It has taken me almost 5 years to recover from this pit of despair I went through and now I am facing 50 with few prospects. I’ve had a few blisteringly hot girlfriends in the meantime and let them all go for reasons Im sure you guys have all been through. Im working on it.. JUST got rid of 100% of my debts, have a little money in the bank, and am working on the future.. not sure where to go from here, but MGTOW has given me hope.. that I wasn’t crazy. I have been in such darkness for the last few years, but now I can see a way out.
This is what hit me when I started listening to and reading the material on MGTOW and MRA.. I am a very well educated person and even I was duped by the bulls~~~. I realized I have been moving towards MGHOW for many years, and only now do I have a frame and full understanding of WHY THIS HAPPENED. I’m not Crazy! I want to shout it from the rooftops!
Thanks for reading this folks, and, as Paul Atreides said once: “Father.. the Sleeper has awakened!”
I think my Dad would have been proud. Peace.

 

There, much better.

P.S: Somehow, the OP was fixed when I posted the “corrected” version of our friend’s introduction. Well, I am leaving the version I copied and cleaned just in case.

Cheers

[MadScientistParticipant 131]

I also wanted to say, the MGTOW community really opened my eyes as to how conditioned I have always been to evaluate my self worth in terms of female approval. I don’t know how much damage that has done to me, but thanks to you guys I am digging out now.. one step at a time.. baby steps. First up: going after what I actually want, instead of viewing everything through the lens of what women would want from me.. were I to have it.

Peace.

[MadScientistParticipant 131]

Thanks for the correction! I realized that only after I posted the first time, after copying directly from my previous post.. I edited it all out and replaced with plain text. Sorry for the confusion 🙂

[Anonymous 1]

No worries.

It is that sometimes people don’t realize that (I am guilty of that too), so I decided to give this post a try and correct the thing in order to be readable (at least for me). It’s a good thing you went back and fixed.

Welcome.

[ExsliventxsParticipant 1067]

welcome Madscientist!

 

[Anonymous 42]

Hey Mad, welcome to the worlds richest deposit of mantronium, it’s deadly to feminism. We’re continually mining and purifying mantronium to gain enough for critical mass. Every mantron counts, we send mantrons through the gynocenterfuge to achieve weapons grade. Welcome to MGTOW!

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.thegynocentrifuge.com

[Executor MaxwellParticipant 591]

MadScientist wrote:

And my Ex still had the gall to demand I pay her credit card bills. “Honey, I’m borderline homeless.. I dont have any money to give you” to which she said “What? What about me? I’m sitting here looking at debt I can’t repay!” (this while living rent free with her parents and not working). Thankfully the divorce did not include alimony, and I spoke to a lawyer about that.. he said “actually you could ask her for money, considering you put her through school with the clear intention of her becoming a professional. I’t wouldn’t stick, but it would make it hard for her to prove she can’t support herself, or that she missed an opportunity to earn money while married to you”. With that threat on the table she backed down and signed a 50/50 split of basically nothing, since I had no money or a house by that time, and had already paid more than my share of the credit card debt.

Wow that was most fortuitous that you were able to get advice from a decent lawyer at that point when you needed it most. It’s awful that I actually think of it this way, but compared to what I see on average out there these days I’d mark your marriage a success in comparison. Welcome aboard Madscientist.

[MadScientistParticipant 131]

Yeah Im VERY happy I stuck to my guns during the marriage and made her working a condition of children and other rewards. If I hadn’t, I’d be looking at the other side of perpetual debt, just like Mr. Robin Williams did. I was already suspicious, I suppose.. the dream had already lost its lustre for me, but none of this was terribly conscious.. I never thought “Well if we get a divorce, I’ll be ok” it was more like “she needs skills to support herself to be happy” which, as I am learning, is actually not what they want, in the end.. probably why she eventually became unhappy.

I’m putting myself in the centrifuge every day, Sir Tower! 🙂 Hopefully we’ll have a few grams of pure, WG Mantronium once we separate off the Mantronium-238 by using our powerful, solid silver magnetron separators of discourse and our osmotic membranes of critical thinking that sift out mangina-ons and simp-ons from the pure product. Maybe I should do some videos? Might be fun 🙂

 

 

[BrainPilotParticipant 7640]

Welcome mad’
Your ex and mine sound like twins. After a very similar experience as the one you described regarding her inability to grow up, get job and produce income like an adult, I gave up looking for marriage counselors and started looking for lawyers. When it was all over, I was broke, but I was out with my career, credit and health intact… and no lingering debt or alimony.

A much older friend who’d been through the process told me later that the partnership I thought I was forming with another adult… was actually more like an adoption of a rebellious adolescent who (like many adolescents) wanted benefits of an adult partnership, while refusing the adult responsibility and accountability that goes with it.

Children you can influence if you are the parent. But an adult female can threaten you in ways no child can. If you do succeed in helping them along and teaching them adult skills and responsibilities until they do finally grow up, they no longer need you and they leave. This after all, is what children are supposed to do when they grow up. It’s appropriate that yours is back with her parents. They need more time to finish raising her to be responsible for herself.

When I finally disowned my adult-female-child, she had been unemployed for two years. 2 weeks after I walked, she had a job and an apartment and has worked full time ever since. She never found anyone else to adopt her and pay her bills, but she never went hungry or homeless either.

They are not helpless damsels in distress. They know exactly what they are doing. Yours is using her parents. Mine will be using her adult son from a previous marriage. Neither of them will grow up and be an adult as long as they can get someone else to do it for them.

As a man going his own way, all we are doing is stepping aside and allowing someone else to do it.

Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you

[Anonymous 42]

BrainPilot wrote:

But an adult female can threaten you in ways no child can.

Hey Brain, the combination of an adult-woman-child with an actual child, can threaten you in ways that could imprison you for decades….. Their just not worth it, your freedom? for decades? or at the least 18 years of entanglement!

That’s like being a dolphin, and having a buoy tied to your dorsal fin……….

[MadScientistParticipant 131]

Mr. BrainPilot, you couldn’t be more correct. She was definitely not interested in maturing, and even started exhibiting adolescent behavior. Once she realized she was cornered on the alimony issue, she yelled at me, like a 13 year old “I wish you had never put me through school!!” Heh.

She did find another dupe (she was still a high value female), and from what I understand is living with him now. Heh. Well, can’t win them all.

MGTOW for the win! I’ll never fall for that trap in this world again, I’ll tell you that.

Peace.

–MS

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