This topic contains 315 replies, has 39 voices, and was last updated by 
IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) 2 years ago.
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This is a great idea FrankOne.. would you be so kind as to post this suggestion in my topic in “MGTOW central” titled “Forum Issues” please sir?
I can understand why messages must be filtered; this site is a target, it has a big ‘bullseye’ on it.
Agreed. In KM we trust.
Frank, Local communities are being organized by astroturfing globalists who sign the city up for the standard ICLEI package. Sure, some aren’t on board yet, but the process is not over.
Internationa Committe on Local Environmental Issues.
have you googled it yet frank?
Please stop refusing to see.
Yes, I’m aware of it. I’m against it, of course. It’s just more big government — or, a private entity that promotes big government, is comprised of a bunch of bureaucrats whose salaries are paid for by local governments. The rationale for it is global warming. Personally, I view the NOX, SOX, particulate, and metal emissions from burning coal, as much more of a problem than the carbon dioxide, which I regard, as innocuous.
Also, typo in my last e-mail: I *lived* in a rural area 10 years ago, I’m currently in the suburbs of a large Midwest/rust belt city.
And of course, the dumb ass Mayor joined ICLEI, and has a ‘Department of Environmental Stewardship’ filled with bureaucrats paid for by my sales tax dollars.
Now I prefer market solutions. If we want to consume less gasoline, and have less congestion, I’d rather have an app on my phone and computer, where I click a button each morning, and car pool with whoever is going that way, as determined by the computer (it would remember the address where I work and live). I work only 10 min away, but I’m not going to take public transport. It isn’t practical in the suburbs as it would take me 30 minutes to get to work, and the bus stop is very distant from the workplace with no sidewalks.
As for large-scale, ‘point source’ emissions, everywhere I’ve worked, we do whatever we can to minimize use of natural gas and oil. Why? Because our fuel bill is over a half million dollars per year — it is an energy-intensive industry. We don’t need any government regulations to encourage us to conserve, the market does just fine…
Veniversum: I posted my thoughts on message approvals in a private message to KM.
Veniversum: I posted my thoughts on message approvals in a private message to KM.
Thank you sir 🙂
Survivor wrote: No. The totalitarian hubris is thinking you can change human nature. The lesson is to recognize that we are all just animals at the base level, and that those claiming they must central plan for “the good of all” are most certainly lying to some degree and are really executing a plan to satisfy their base needs too. They are not gods, though they ask to be worshipped as job creators. Libertarianism is the cult of the oligarchs.
Some central planners truly do believe it is for the good of all; others are in it for power. Ralph Nader wears old shoes and clothes and truly believes in central planning, not to get rich and have people worship him; he’s an ideaological leftists. In contrast, Stalin liked central power because he was a despot, not an idealist. He didn’t give a s~~~ about the ‘proletariat’.
If Libertarianism is the ‘cult of the oligarchs’, the [Libertarian] Party and its candidates, certainly don’t receive much support or backing from large industries — so reality, does not support your claim. Indeed, most businessmen support Republicans, who believe in significant government regulations, militarism, restrictions on controlled substances, and wealth transfer.
Survivor writes: And the raional behind behind envronmentalism is NOW to keep people off the land, so they must work for corporations or starve.
Most environmentalists I’ve known tend to be left-leaning. They want people to live in high density dwellings close to where they work, and would prefer a less materialistic/less consumer culture. They want to preserve natural areas such as forests. Many would like to see an end to ‘industrial’ farming insofar as raising livestock. The high density model has its benefits — no 30 minute commutes — but I don’t think the State should force it upon people. Where I reside, much of the central city is an urban wasteland of crime and decay, with a few hipster dwellings intermingled in there. Many of the ones I’ve met are hippy types, live out in the country, and are anti-corporation, so I think you’re painting them with a broad brush. I think it’s more accurate to say in general, they’d like to see less natural lands developed, especially forests and wetlands and other habitats.
Frankone, and beer both suffer from the business versus government false dichotomy that modern day fascist rely upon.
I can’t speak for Beer, but I tend to favor civil society solutions — voluntary organizations — to solve social problems, such as aiding the poor — rather than government handouts. So I definitely don’t believe in such a dichotomy.
You have no concept of what fascism comprises; fascism is authoritarianism and nationalism. Libertarianism is extreme free choice with maximum individual liberty — do whatever you please so long as it doesn’t harm others — and limited central power. I’ve always found this a useful matrix to see where you lie on the political spectrum: https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php — I’m at the Libertarian tip. The reason I prefer this chart is it has two axes, one for personal/civil freedom, and the other for economic liberty.
Right.
So the opposition to nuclear power is from Mass Media Hysteria. Who operates the mass media? The people? no.
And what is your take on privatized prison management? Do you think that provides an incentive to create more laws and criminalize more behaviors?
And look at these two. They fancy themselves the kings of the robots. There’s room in the world for about 5 of these people, the rest of us can just go to hell I suppose.
Some of it stems from who comprises the media. They are mostly left-leaning journalism majors. Many do not understand the relative risks and costs of competing technologies for electrical power generation. Also, drama sells copy — nobody wants to read stories about a nuclear power plant that’s been producing electricity for 20 years straight without incident, they want to read about Fukishima. The people don’t run the mass media, but neither does big business. The mass media itself, is fragmenting in the internet era — which is good, in my opinion IF it promotes critical thinking. The mass media is far more diverse than when I was younger; we had the network news then — so fewer receive the ‘monolithic leftists message’ now, than they did then. After all, there are millions of listeners to ‘non-conformist’ talk radio personalities. Those outlets with the most subscribers, will grow. So if you prefer rarefied news coverage like me, you subscribe the the Economist rather than the National Enquirer. Then that outlet has more resources for correspondents and more clout. CNN and Faux News aren’t forced down our throats; we can watch more objective news should we choose to do so. And if Big Business was in total cahoots with the mainstream media, we wouldn’t see so many stories against, say, fracking in the oil & gas industry, or against nuclear power… So business and government are often at odds with one another, if that were not the case, and the State had more power, it would expropriate industries like oil & gas & you’d have a nationalized oil company in the US. And if business had control, you’d see taxes reduced as well as some regulations. So yes, there is a dichotomy in they are two different entities, NOT one masquerading as two.
I favor private prisons as they are more efficient. I see little difference between prison guard unions supporting tougher sentencing and private sector operators supporting same. If you want to reduce prison populations, end laws against victimless crimes: narcotics, prostitution, etc, that will empty half the prisons. That is the libertarian solution.
As for automation, me and Beer work in an industry where we’ve seen what it can and cannot do, and were engaging in a nuanced discussion of it. And yes, I do like the machinery that sews my socks, packages my food, and otherwise makes my life easier and goods and services cheaper. And I also like the control systems that provide alarms and interlocks in potentially dangerous plants, that help keep us safe. THAT is some of what we were discussing.
The real central planning is not done by “governments”. It’s done by bankers and large corporations.
Libertarians are just as deluded as everyone else. hence, what they think they support, is not really that at all.
And private prisons are pure fascism. Im not suprised you support them. Putting a profit motive on imprisonment is obscene.
And efficiency is not the point of life. Efficiency is how slave owners appraise their slaves.
How do said ‘bankers’ exert such control, with such low ownership in public companies? Ditto for government — the government SOLD GM? Are you familiar with how large public companies are run? Boards of Directors? Please, don’t respond with ‘the CFR’….
Is paying the police, the guards, the prosecutors, the public defenders, the warden, the teachers, the cafeteria staff, and the doctors at the prison also obscene? Or should they just volunteer their time? Remember, the profit motive exists for individuals, as well as groups of individuals organized in a corporate structure.
As I said, you will have entrenched interests regardless of whether it is private. My police local [union] pushes for wage and benefit increases, and more police. A private police department will likely do the same, but at least the public will have alternate vendors for the contract, which can be renewed at some time interval. So the private police provider, will be constrained by competition. If you don’t believe lack of competition has had the impact that I describe, then how do you explain how public sector workers receive numerous holidays, and generous retirement benefits after only 20 years of work, have virtually guaranteed employment (try dismissing one!), whereas this is not afforded typically in the private sector? Do you find you receive good service and short lines at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, or at private sector businesses where you have alternatives? Any why don’t you answer any of the questions I pose in these posts?
Privatization has little to do with fascism. Indeed, in Mussolini’s implementation of fascism, you had cartelization rather than competition; he implemented regimented agriculture, etc — hardly free-market libertarianism…
And yes, I do like the machinery that sews my socks, packages my food, and otherwise makes my life easier and goods and services cheaper.
The majority of people want to bitch about things like this like it killed manufacturing jobs…but then they go and buy these very products because they are the cheapest option. You can still find a lot of mom and pop operations around for a ton of different things from food, to clothing, to hygiene products, to furniture, etc…its just people would rather have the convenience of one stop at walmart and spending a fraction of the money they otherwise would.
Its no different than imports. You always here people screaming about bringing manufacturing back here…but look what they have on their feet. I bet they have a 60 dollar pair of sneakers made in Mexico or China on…why didn’t they buy the 150 dollar pair of made in the USA New Balance sneakers?
Too many people want to complain about the problem without being part of the solution.
Beer writes: The majority of people want to bitch about things like this like it killed manufacturing jobs…but then they go and buy these very products because they are the cheapest option. You can still find a lot of mom and pop operations around for a ton of different things from food, to clothing, to hygiene products, to furniture, etc…its just people would rather have the convenience of one stop at walmart and spending a fraction of the money they otherwise would.
Its no different than imports. You always here people screaming about bringing manufacturing back here…but look what they have on their feet. I bet they have a 60 dollar pair of sneakers made in Mexico or China on…why didn’t they buy the 150 dollar pair of made in the USA New Balance sneakers?
Too many people want to complain about the problem without being part of the solution.
I was referring more to automation lowering cost of goods, but cheap foreign labor has also had a drastic impact. Like you say, everybody wants to talk about buying American , but doing it, nay.
Personally, I prefer Mom & Pop restaurants to chains, but I like ethnic food so that’s a natural fit. I find the national chains boring and monolithic. We may have a common culture in the US, but it’s a rather bland culture (music, art, etc).
I buy the cheapest foreign made T-shoes, except work boots; there I consciously buy Red Wings (most made in America), but at $165 for steel-toed shoes, they’re rather pricey… Fortunately my employer pays for them — but it takes time/research to even know what is made where. Quality is spectacular. I highly recommend them.
My car has an engine manufactured in the State in which I reside. But I buy t-shirts and all textiles foreign made, though much of them from thrift stores so it’s second-hand. There is actually a manufacturer of jeans in my state (very small); I don’t buy from them due to the 200% higher prices.
Survivor: I stand by my statement that media is more fragmented due to technology — more choices. Yes, mass media has consolidated ownership (the FCC gradually loosened rules over a 20+ year period on finsyn, etc). But I now have channels available to me I simply didn’t have 25 years ago — I got on the internet in ’93. By channels, I don’t mean the idiot box TV channels — I mean, avenues such as these forums, or wikipedia — a great source for anything that is not political or controversial. It is much less costly for anyone to deliver content. You can self-publish, and I can read it on my computer or tablet. Social media, which I don’t use, has further fragmented communications. Another aspect of this is, consolidation does not necessarily mean controlling editorial policy. Finally, people typically pick what news outlets they view, based on their politics: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-your-preferred-news-outlet-says-about-your-political-ideology-2014-10
i’d really love to see the end of it, where those penny papers, have no value in daily life anymore
the majority of scandals in my country caused solemnly by that penny paper, even a piece of that
inedible thing, could throw someone life’s away, in the end i couldn’t careless though
as info and opinion will only last thus far…
People who have low income don’t really get to decide what they can purchase for themselves, because too many of the primary costs of living aren’t decided by them. Their decisions are made in accordance with what they can actually afford. Financial constraints limit options. People don’t get to decide how much their rent will be, the price of gas, the price of electricity, water, food, etc. Nearly everything is decided by someone else, including hourly wages. Furthermore, at this point it’s extremely difficult to find anything that *isn’t* made in China. That’s not the fault of the populace, that was the choice of the ruling class. It has gotten better with the internet, but people who couldn’t afford a computer in addition to internet service just go to Wal-Mart. In my town, Sulphur, OK, you have to drive 30 miles just to try to shop somewhere else. I’m all for buying American made, and I do when I can, but it’s more difficult to find now. Extremely much more difficult. I think people who haven’t had these challenges really have no understanding of them and make mass amounts of assumptions.
People who have low income don’t really get to decide what they can purchase for themselves, because too many of the primary costs of living aren’t decided by them. Their decisions are made in accordance with what they can actually afford. Financial constraints limit options. People don’t get to decide how much their rent will be, the price of gas, the price of electricity, water, food, etc. Nearly everything is decided by someone else, including hourly wages. Furthermore, at this point it’s extremely difficult to find anything that *isn’t* made in China. That’s not the fault of the populace, that was the choice of the ruling class. It has gotten better with the internet, but people who couldn’t afford a computer in addition to internet service just go to Wal-Mart. In my town, Sulphur, OK, you have to drive 30 miles just to try to shop somewhere else. I’m all for buying American made, and I do when I can, but it’s more difficult to find now. Extremely much more difficult. I think people who haven’t had these challenges really have no understanding of them and make mass amounts of assumptions.
I would argue markets set wages and prices, not a ruling class. Granted, the minimum wage sets a floor, but the market, has dictated employees are worth more, at least where I live, so no employers can keep employees by paying only minimum wage.
The reason we can’t find textiles made in the USA, is because consumers respond to price signals. If there were a huge demand for such goods, there would be ‘USA made’ stores. Instead, it’s a niche market; in my State one company makes jeans. A handful of stores in the US, sell american-made only goods. But there isn’t much demand.
Sir, you can manipulate the demand of something by making it cheaper. That’s precisely right now why goods made in China are being bought up by poor people. It has nothing to do with what people would rather have; it has to do with what they are financially capable of having.
Sir, you can manipulate the demand of something by making it cheaper. That’s precisely right now why goods made in China are being bought up by poor people. It has nothing to do with what people would rather have; it has to do with what they are financially capable of having.
But is this ‘manipulation’ or the invisible hand? After all, multiple firms in multiple countries compete. This competition, along with the competitors’ cost of goods, labor, freight, etc, set prices.
Is it ‘manipulation’ only when we have free trade and markets set prices, or is it ‘manipulation’ when prices are set by politics, and government restricts foreign and/or domestic competitors to pick winners are losers? Which alternative is more manipulative, and which, more transparent?
The poor will certainly be more sensitive to price.
But, there is a large middle class, who buy at least some designer clothes and pay a premium for them. They do not so much care where something is made, if they did, they would place a premium on that, and have a selection preference for it. I place a premium on price, and go to the thrift store for most of my clothing. Others may shop at Walmart or the wealthier at specialty stores.
Survivor: Actually, I’d like to see reciprocal tariffs, and concur, we don’t have that with China.
That said, high import tariffs have two consequences: Domestic manufacturing is subsidized, and consumers have to pay more for goods. So let’s say we put high tarriffs on cheap apparel from developing countries. Consumers would pay a lot more for jeans, t-shirts, etc. So we’d likely see our spending on apparel go up considerably, consuming a similar fraction of our income, as it did in, say, 1950 — that is, tripling from 4% to 12% of our income — or at least some increase.
Tariffs, are what funded the bulk of the federal government, prior to the income tax being established in 1913.
Frank I don’t know why you are bothering trying to educate the guy who calls you a globalist in one post and a fascist in the next.
It isn’t worldwide fascism, Survivor. It isn’t corporations that are ruling the world. It is central banks. It is world socialism. I’d highly recommend you read the book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin. It pretty much lays everything out.
Review the following. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLV3dcj1bJ4
Review the following. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLV3dcj1bJ4
Mark Passio hits the nail on the head.
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