Feminism: what if it's the other way around?

[DiygkasParticipant 103]

I was watching this video again, please watch only a few seconds (from 19:25 to 19:40)

 

It brought my atention to the fact that women are not, by all means, looking to empower themselves. That always puzzled me, but suddenly, this kinda makes sense. Remember when Esther Villar said that men do all kinds of things to improve women’s life, because they think, if only they had more free time, etc, they would improve and be interested in better things, higher things?

Well, we always knew the feminist movement started with the support of several men! Here in Brazil, the fight for the vote was pretty much done in its entirety by men, and the women did very little. Hell, the first woman to vote, did so by orders from her husband.

So I believe the feminist movement, when it started, was being held together by male minds, and seeked to empower women, because this was male’s interest. However, as soon as it began to walk with its own legs (without the help of men) the movement became victimist, and begs for support and protection.

 

Here is my core question: what if, instead of men going their own way because of feminism, what happened is the oposite: men started to expect women to take charge of their own lives and they felt alone and unprotected, thus creating modern day feminism?

 

I think that makes a lot of sense. Men started to get tired of women whining all the time, they had free time, they could work, they could go to college, and men started to wonder “why on earth are they still depending on us?”. So men started to go their own way, and women felt abandoned. And since they no longer had gentlemen to save them from the things that could possibly bother them, such as having real responsabilities, having to work and have a minimum concern about their own safety, they did what a good woman would do: they started to cry and expect someone would come and rescue them.

 

That puts some logic in modern day feminism:

They do not empower women, but victimize them;

They believe everyone (men, society, government) should be helping and supporting them (“what have you done for women today” campaign, #heforshe, etc).

 

And even the fact that you have many men who claim they have always been mgtow, just didn’t know that, that proves that men are tired of women’s s~~~ for quite some time.

Tell me your thoughts on this, and as always sorry for english mistakes.

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

Diygkas wrote:

So I believe the feminist movement, when it started, was being held together by male minds, and sought to empower women, because this was male’s interest. However, as soon as it began to walk with its own legs (without the help of men) the movement became victimist, and begs for support and protection.

Well Diygkas, that is some bit of a disturbing and yet interesting perspective. Now, if it indeed was like the way in your assumption above (the quote I inserted), then maybe yes, we should in reality regret that some of our male forebears from back then might have ultimately made a big mistake which again had started really small as it would have, which ironically enough reminds me of how one trollup of about a month ago, who had somehow but in a much more irrational way expressed it as I recall.

But anyway, now back to your core question —>

Diygkas wrote:

What if, instead of men going their own way because of feminism, what happened is the opposite: men started to expect women to take charge of their own lives and they felt alone and unprotected, thus creating modern day feminism?

I guess if this was so, then our current awareness would be our very realization and reasoning with the fact, that we or rather like I said what some of our male forebears did, was a fundamental mistake and thus this current awareness could actually be labeled MGTOW 2.0 with the very aim, that this time women might actually catch up with their own very reasoning they had missed out on or had misunderstood back then say about a hundred years ago, or that they had misunderstood the reason behind it all, why men back in those days tried to make the lives of women easier in the first place, because women, as long as it no doubt took them to gradually turn it to abuse all of our ancestor’s past initial and well intended help. Now there one could again argue, that this before mentioned process actually didn’t take women very long, but instead because of its slow gradual development took us men very long to realize that mistake…

The really interesting question to be read  between those line then would (either way) be: how should we go about it to achieve our long term goals and what would those goals in reality be or contain. Funnily enough I was just gonna make a new extra thread about this very question and yes I think I should bring it up very soon…

Cheers

Ned T.

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[QcummerParticipant 652]

Your core question presumes ‘b/c feminism’. It doesn’t matter why men go their own way, the reason is every man’s own choice based on ‘reality’ or ‘what is’.

What to do is your own choice, and the ‘how and why things got this way’, is irrelevant for MGTOW. I understand this is the Philosophy section, so maybe your ‘core question’ should be revised to be more clear. Maybe it’s your English as you mentioned, so you might want to say it many different ways. Thanks for your input so far!

[DurdenParticipant 1051]

Its not at all surprising that we who have cared for woman for thousands of years would like to have her share in our ideals. It is a noble concept and one that was attempted. Its the thought that perhaps woman could provide a perspective of things yet undiscovered. That we could enjoy both their physical intimacy and have intelligent conversation. It was indeed man who created feminism. But not for contempt or hate but for love of those for which he cared. Believing that in sharing what he did would make her happy. It has made her and us miserable.

Unfortunately the vast amount of women cannot handle complex processes and not can think with logic as we can. Even those who possibly could are so clouded by emotion they cannot handle it. They are not the risk takers of the species.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

[DiygkasParticipant 103]

Thanks for the feedback. I will quote Villar directly, so you can see my point of view more clearly:

 

“He really loves his wife and wants her
happiness more than anything in the world. […]In the end, he hopes, this being
whose needs seem to him so much sensitive, so much more refined, will gain
freedom – freedom to achieve in her life the ideal state which is his dream: to live the
life of a free man.
Then he sits back and waits. Finally, as woman does not come to him of her own free
will, he tries to tempt her into his world. He offers her coeducation, so that she is
accustomed to his way of life from childhood. With all sorts of excuses, he gets her to
attend his universities and initiates her into the mysteries of his own discoveries,
hoping to awaken her interest in the wonders of life. He gives her access to the very
last male strongholds, thereby relinquishing traditions sacred to him by encouraging
her to make use of her right to vote in the hope she will change the systems of
government he has managed to think up so laboriously, according to her own ideas.

“[…]When a man, believing woman his equal, realizes the futility of her way of life,

he naturally tends to think that it must be his fault, that he must be suppressing her.”

 

Here she describes the efforts of men to bring women to his world. I believe this is still the state we encounter ourselves today, in several countries. But we are going to another direction, one that is mentioned below:

 

“But in our time women are no longer subject to the will of men. Quite the contrary. They
have been given every opportunity to win their independence and if, after all this
time, they have not liberated themselves and thrown off their shackles, we can only
arrive at one conclusion: there are no shackles to throw off.”

 

So I guess, as Qcummer said, it’s not relevant  the reasons that lead one single man to go his own way. But that does not mean we can no track the state of things that caused events, such as MGTOW, vegetarian men, in Japan, etc, to exist all at the same time. So here are my theories, in other words, to be more clear:

1) we are in a time of transition, where more and more people are realizing women are not sistematically oppressed, but simply have no interest in becoming what men are;

2) the timeline of events, is not “because of feminism women became whiny bitches and that caused man to get mad at them and say ‘wtf stop playing the victim, grow some b~~~~ and be the strong independent woman you claim you are'”, but the other way around, “men started to ask women to take charge of their own lives and women felt abandoned, thus becoming whiny bithces and are constantly looking for someone to take care of them (society, government, etc)”.

 

You can include many things here. For example: safe spaces. Why there are so many safe spaces everywhere, in unversities, for example? The world is not increadibly more dangerous for women to feel threatened all the time, but what happens is they can sense, as times goes by, less and less men are willing to sacrifice themselves to save them. Men will no longer go out of their way (pun intended) to save a dansel in distress, and this causes women to feel fragile and vulnerable, so they create safe spaces.

I mean, they could be mature about it and learn to defend themselves, but… oh well. We are talking about women so, i guess that is not an option. As Durden said, they just lack the competence to do so.

 

So the causality of things is not that feminism created MGTOW, but ultimately, MGTOW created feminism, as men grew tired of carrying women’s weight around and started to shout “grow up” , later abandoning them behind to drag their own asses.

[DiygkasParticipant 103]

I hope i don’t get banned for necroposting, but i just watched this video and i think it kinda suits my point of view. Men allowed women to choose, and i’m kinda certain they did that because they became more and more tired of their buls~~~.

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