Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Female Agency (2 Recent Personal Stories)
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Ned Trent 4 years, 10 months ago.
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Hey everyone. This is the second topic I’m bringing to the forum. I had another topic in mind but I think I’m more interested in sharing my personal experiences, because the responses while sometimes harsh are more visceral and real; which is something I like, because we have all reached a point in which we have each realized that we are more than human doings. We are human beings! So over this weekend I had 2 very interesting interactions with women. The first was at my local gym. I typically go to the gym about 4 to 5 times a week, and put an emphasis on bag work (sandbag/heavy bag) on the weekends. I have a background in amateur fighting in Muay Thai & traditional boxing as well as kickboxing, so I know what I’m doing when I train on these bags. And I always train like I’m preparing to do a 15 round fight. So there I was doing some intense bag work, when a couple of girls traipse on in (one was a 6.5 the other was a 7). They proceeded to try and workout as close as they could to me, which was really annoying because I was actually trying to accomplish something. And all the while they were there pretending to be victims, so that I would stop what I was doing and help them with their form and technique (which I didn’t). They kept batting their eyes at me while throwing faux kicks and punches, instead of using their agency to simply ask me out or ask me for help. I thoroughly ignored them and continued working out. They stopped pretending to work on the bag and I could feel their spirits being crushed as they left the bag room.
Later that same night I went to a local bar that I frequent on the weekends and a woman sat down next to me to have a drink. I wasn’t really looking to talk to anyone except the bartenders and other local patrons that all come to this establishment. However one woman (She was a 5.5) was determined to get my attention and talk to me. I ignored her for a bit until she used the bartender to introduce herself to me ( a dirty trick even for a woman), so we got to talking for a bit and she feels comfortable enough to put her hands on me; which I told her not to do. The worst part of all was that she told me she had a fiancee and was preparing to get married this summer. Her husband-to-be was in Europe on business; which I guess in her mind made her a free woman, because she wanted me to go back to her place with her. I told her I wasn’t interested. She did not take this well and hit me and tried to shame me by calling me gay. She had been drinking and was more than a bit tipsy so luckily the staff saw her behavior and reacted accordingly. But I must say it was very interesting watching her friends and the staff “escort” her out. Very pathetic, but what she proposed was despicable, and her treatment of me was atrocious, so I shed no tears.
These 2 recent experiences got me thinking about female agency or women’s ability to ask guys out. I don’t usually have women asking me out which is one reason why going my own way is so easy for me, but this time it happened and I’m curious if there is a correlation between a woman’s attractiveness and the utilization of their agency. It seems like the girls at the gym didn’t want to overtly ask me out because they new they were pretty/ hot -whatever they thought of themselves, so they expected me to ask them out by playing damsel-in-distress. Basically in my mind they thought they were too good to ask a guy out directly, because they were too good to risk rejection. However in the case of the less attractive bar woman, she knows that guys won’t really ask her out because she’s not at the same caliber as the women around her and must therefore “lower” herself to a guy’s standards and actually use her agency. After these two things happened to me it really did make me reflect on the times when I would ask women out on dates and the types of girls who would occasionally (very rare cases) ask me out, and in general it was the lesser attractive women, or fat girls, or a fugly girl. I’m curious what you all think about this and sorry for the long post. I just wanted everything to be in context to get the proper feedback. Thanks to any and all of my brothers who read this and Cheers!!
In general women expect men to do everything when it comes to initiating communication because they enjoy the chase. It’s like positive affirmation when a guy hits on them, even when they don’t want anything to happen from it. I had this a few times on dating websites (when I used to use them), unattractive girls would say “hi” to me via message and nothing else, so I’d say hi back, but they didn’t message again. This is how women operate, they will do something to initially grab you attention (make eye contact, wear certain types of clothes, in your case work-out right next to you to get your attention) but that’s as far as it goes, they expect the guy to make the approach. Sandman has a few interesting videos about sexual market value. This is why women (well I guess guys can do this too) will flirt with people they have no interesting in sleeping with, because they want the affirmation.
In the case of the woman at the bar, some women are more aggressive in seeking what they want, especially when they’re drinking. In the case of women who are less physically attractive, they have to draw attention to themselves in other ways, but I’d have to guess she wouldn’t have done this had she not been drinking.
The only time a girl asked me out on a date (rather than just meeting for whatever) was so she could make some other guy jealous.
It’s quite funny. Despite all this talk about how “strong”, “independent” and “equal” women are/claim to be, if you sit down and ask them they overwhelmingly will say that it’s the man’s job to ask a woman out. This is why I don’t buy it for one second that women are better communicators than men. The two in the gym could have come up to you and asked for help. The woman in the bar could have walked over and introduced herself or started up a conversation. Instead they opt to just hang around and hope they pique your interest through the damsel in distress ploy or use the bartender to accomplish their goals.
Oh and all that “it’s the man’s job to ask a woman out”? That only seems to be the case if he’s handsome or rich. If he’s a skinny nerd, he’s a “creep” or a “stalker” or a “potential rapist”.
It’s my job to humbly plead with you to grace me with your precious time? Don’t flatter yourself, hon. I’m just here for the Hoegaarden.
I have found that I must ask women out. I had to learn to approach them, it did not come naturally. I found myself newly divorced at 30. After joining a dating site, I met a fellow that was a guitar player and we started playing together. He was 37 and could see I needed some help.
He told me to practice approaching 3 women every day. Just see a girl you like walking down the street and try to strike up a conversation. He said it was a numbers game. You never know the ones who are available from the ones who are not so don’t take rejection seriously. With practice I got pretty good at it. I would get 3 phone numbers from girls probably 8 and up. I once hit on a girl in the produce section. I asked her if she could help me pick the ripe banana’s, I s~~~ you not. It worked, we went out a few times.
Then I noticed that the only girls who messaged me were really really hot. They were usually looking for something specific in my profile. Usually because I’m a doctor and I can also dance. Their pretty specific about why, doc or dance, they message me.
Those are the ones that work out. Where she messages me. Most of these women had hidden profiles because they got so many messages that it was impossible to have a profile. They liked the control messaging guys gave them.
I suppose that very attractive women who don’t need anyone’s approval, they are really hot and everyone knows it, have more confidence. The girls in the gym that didn’t approach you probably don’t feel good enough for you and are waiting to see if it’s true.
If you smile back it’s game on.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
She did not take this well and hit me and tried to shame me by calling me gay.
Here’s a good response for when some woman tries the whole, “Are you gay?” line of shaming bulls~~~: “No, but the longer I’m near you the more I’m considering it.”
lol… Good one Angelus.
A lot of good points, but I will sum this up in 3 words:
Women want attention.
Period. Do not look deeper into it. Don’t try to draw out any more conclusions or theories. These 3 words sum up your experience completely.
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the great responses everyone. I’ll try and get to some of the great points your guys made
The only time a girl asked me out on a date (rather than just meeting for whatever) was so she could make some other guy jealous.
Thanks an interesting observation. I wonder how common that is.
It’s quite funny. Despite all this talk about how “strong”, “independent” and “equal” women are/claim to be, if you sit down and ask them they overwhelmingly will say that it’s the man’s job to ask a woman out. This is why I don’t buy it for one second that women are better communicators than men. The two in the gym could have come up to you and asked for help. The woman in the bar could have walked over and introduced herself or started up a conversation. Instead they opt to just hang around and hope they pique your interest through the damsel in distress ploy or use the bartender to accomplish their goals. Oh and all that “it’s the man’s job to ask a woman out”? That only seems to be the case if he’s handsome or rich. If he’s a skinny nerd, he’s a “creep” or a “stalker” or a “potential rapist”. It’s my job to humbly plead with you to grace me with your precious time? Don’t flatter yourself, hon. I’m just here for the Hoegaarden.
Exactly on point brother. Even though they have the agency they don’t want the responsibility that comes with it, and they want the “right” men to hit on them and risk rejection instead of risking it themselves. You’re completely on point about what happens when the “wrong” guys hit on them as well. Those guys are just “creeps” and “losers”
Usually because I’m a doctor and I can also dance. Their pretty specific about why, doc or dance, they message me. Those are the ones that work out.
They were into you because you’re a doctor. They smelled money. Dancing was just icing on the cake. lol. But you had something that they wanted and you’re in demand by definition of being a doctor. Girls in this society won’t be into the dancing garbage man. Even if he’s a perfectly good person. In my opinion they saw you as a human doing who could one day do everything for them. Thank God they don’t know you’ve gone you’re own way. lol.
I suppose that very attractive women who don’t need anyone’s approval, they are really hot and everyone knows it, have more confidence.
I’m not sure I necessarily agree with this. From my previous experiences I’ve noticed that in our current society that women who are generally a 0 – 7 have the most confidence and the women who are 7 – 10 have lower self esteem and confidence. Across the board the majority of them have the same plan. To get us to pay for everything and extend their privileges beyond what they already have, but that’s a topic of discussion for a different time. I’ve only experienced this anecdotally, so I don’t have any hard evidence. I do take your personal experiences seriously because it is a truth that you witnessed and lived through. I just think it may be a calculated move on their part because of your status as a doctor.
A lot of good points, but I will sum this up in 3 words: Women want attention. Period. Do not look deeper into it. Don’t try to draw out any more conclusions or theories. These 3 words sum up your experience completely.
You’re absolute right that women want attention, and we all know it, but that’s not the reason why I shared what happened to me. I’m still curious if there is a correlation between a woman’s attractiveness and the utilization of her agency. I only know what I know based on my own life experience, but I’m wondering if other people share this experience, because knowing it and having the knowledge gives me power when I interact with women. As much as I would totally love to cut women from my life completely I know, realistically, it won’t happen. So I’m learning how to psychologically push them away as well, so they bother me even less than they do now, and I can go my own way in an even more effective way. It’s always good to know your enemy, so you can control his actions without him knowing it. Maybe that’s why I like our movement, ideology, and brotherhood.
Thanks for everyone who shared their thoughts, experiences, and opinions. It’s always very helpful and appreciated. Cheers to everyone who contributed. By the way I can’t remember who mentioned Sandman, but I listen to him regularly along with Razor Blade Candy. Thanks again and Cheers!
I find it amusing when wymen flop around trying to get guys to hit on them. I see this in dept stores,malls, gyms etc. Don’t bite! They may look attractive but if you do any PUA crap you are just feeding their ego.
Wymen expect men to sweep them off their feet, ask for their number, pay for dates. not me. Leave them squirming. These hoes definitely won’t help me in my goals in life. Mgtow level 3..
Yeah, I couldn’t get arrested until I got into medical school…true dat.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
John is right women need attention just like food, and water if they don’t get it the results will be the same as someone who has gone days without eating. They literally begin to fall apart mentally, and physically that is why I NEVER give women attention, or acknowledge them. The only time I interact with a woman is to get a job done, and as much as I don’t like it that’s nature. We must communicate with the opposite sex, but that does not have to be on a romantic level. Prostitutes are the most honest women I have ever met, because they don’t pretend to give two s~~~s about you. They want a certain amount of money for an exchange of services, and they’re a hell of a lot cheaper than these lying “romance” narcissus running around.
The funnier part is when you see them acting all shocked when you ignore them. Priceless!
It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
I agree with John Doe, its all about attention period.
I have no interest in validating a woman’s self esteem. The only ones who approach my old ass anymore are with some man they want to make jealous, or need assistance of some kind. So it is very common for a woman to use men to make the men they have jealous. This is still just a bid for attention, albeit an underhanded bid.
I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.
@angelus: No apology necessary for the length of your post. I think I hold all the records there and I need to work on brevity.
Your post really made me think. By most measures I have been quite successful with women. But with five exceptions in forty-plus years I have always been the one that had to initiate things or do the “asking.” Of the exceptions four of them were women in committed relationships. They all very openly told me that if they weren’t in a relationship they would be knocking on my door. I took all that for what it was worth but was flattered nonetheless. The other exception was a junkie ex-con who invited me to go eat oysters with her. I took that for what it was worth too but on this occasion I wasn’t flattered.
Upon reflection I find that I like or would like being asked to go out or whatever. Yet it never seems to happen. Of course it no longer matters but I would like to know why women never seem to do the asking. Your post and some of the responses touches on the reason(s) but it has to go deeper than that. I’m going to do a little research on this and I would definitely appreciate input from anyone and everyone.
I think it goes a little deeper than attention.
Women are completely terrified of risk on any level, unless they are risking something of someone else’s; in which case they are more than willing to watch someone else take a loss to observe how it might play out for them.
This is why women have “Their Bank Account” which is strictly theirs, while they tend to view the other half’s bank account as “Our Bank Account”. They have built in security measures to ensure for their own well-being in almost all situations.
By waiting for a man to ask them out, they risk absolutely nothing (except that they are inherently self-unaware, and it’s lost on them that most of the time their actions come across as pathetic and child-like).
If the man doesn’t ask her out, she can justify it in her own delusional mind that there is something wrong with him. By expecting the man to ask her out, she has created a completely safe atmosphere for her cowardly self which may provide three or more outcomes. She has begun to scheme, and create “options” for herself, at the expense of another.
She can reject him, and retain her delusion of being superior, leaving the situation as the winner in her mind. She can also accept him, providing that she knows that it will in some way benefit herself. Or she can simply string him along, which will provide affirmation, validation and the sense of power for herself. This oft-repeated scene is one of the situations where women can feel “in-control” (a phrase which they use as commonly as a man farts) and of having power in her mind.
I find that an appropriate and successful response to a woman using no agency whatsoever in her attempt at luring you to her beck and call through posturing, is to look her directly in the eye and say “What do you want?”. Women suck at simple, direct communication. Nine times out of ten, they are completely incapable of communicating in a fashion that isn’t laden with an ulterior motive.
You will most likely not secure a lay from that smooth line, but it can be satisfying watching them fluster, bumble and actually have to come up with a response that justifies their adolescent behaviour. You can lead them on and embarrass them highly from that point forward if you so choose to entertain yourself.
And hey, if their self-esteem is low enough, you might actually drop a pickle in the barrel.
The drunk woman at the bar you described in your first story was basically acting like a man does when he tries to pick up a woman. And f~~~ it, frankly, I say good for her. She was even honest with you that she had a relationship and was just looking for action. All in all, my moral compass points right where hers is. Even the gay shaming part — f~~~ it, you can take a little gay shaming. She’s the one risking rejection by going after you.
I agree with you that there’s a correlation between females being able to attract a man just by batting her eyelashes, and her willingness to stick her neck on the line. Beautiful women are incredibly spoiled, and therefor very fragile and manipulative. But I really see nothing wrong with the behavior of a less-attractive girl trying to pick up a guy at a bar for a one-night stand. F~~~, we should be ENCOURAGING that s~~~.
The drunk woman at the bar you described in your first story was basically acting like a man does when he tries to pick up a woman. And f~~~ it, frankly, I say good for her. She was even honest with you that she had a relationship and was just looking for action. All in all, my moral compass points right where hers is. Even the gay shaming part — f~~~ it, you can take a little gay shaming. She’s the one risking rejection by going after you. I agree with you that there’s a correlation between females being able to attract a man just by batting her eyelashes, and her willingness to stick her neck on the line. Beautiful women are incredibly spoiled, and therefor very fragile and manipulative. But I really see nothing wrong with the behavior of a less-attractive girl trying to pick up a guy at a bar for a one-night stand. F~~~, we should be ENCOURAGING that s~~~.
She was basically acting like a man to a small degree though. You’ve only recited a small part of her actions. She took a risk, and when she didn’t get what she wanted, she became emotionally unhinged, physically abusive and attempted to emotionally abuse him. Are we supposed to ignore this behaviour after the rejection? Women want only certain parts of their actions to be remembered and we can’t feed into that. They love to lie by omission. They don’t even consider it lying. Had she accepted the rejection and moved on to the next possible score, I’d see your point.
Angelus decided, for whatever reason (which is purely up to him) that he wasn’t interested. A man would at that point either call it a night, or move on to the next prospect. She came unglued, assaulted him, and was escorted out of the place as a complete wreck.
Next time a woman rejects you at the bar (if that happens. you seem like a dude who can score if he so wishes), call her a dyke at the top of your lungs, and punch her in the face; then get escorted out by your buds and the bouncers, whilst blubbering and crying because you didn’t get your way. I have a feeling this won’t go over particularly well.
You’ll either be arrested, jumped, or both.
In Angelus’ case, she evaporated into the night, as if she were the one who has suffered an indignity, all the while being consoled for being an asshole. As always, she has no accountability for her actions.
This is precisely how feminists wish the world to view men: as unhinged, babbling loons who club women over the head and drag them back to the cave to achieve their desires. It’s perfectly acceptable for them to act that way though? Because….well……woman.
We tend to have a little more class than that.
I dont want to flood the forum as dudes have already responded. But I will throw in a few jabs.
Bitches are infantilized and manipulative, and nature or nurture that is their identity. Always pleading for assistance yet claiming sovereignty and sometimes superiority, or manipulating their sexuality with such subtlety that if you respond and weren’t the target, it gives them room to play the harassment card.
unfortunately they are ALL f~~~ing like that. I can count on one hand, maybe using up a digit on the second, to count the mainstream women who challenge the f~~~ing c~~~ identity and college style feminism, which is so awkward to identify, I just call it all feminism.
In other words, you can pretty safely call ALL broads f~~~ed. Because for me, being 95% right is pretty f~~~ing accurate.
Anonymous5The truth is, women are borderline children. It’s like they never grew up out of being a kid. They always start fights, they always have to have the last word, they play the victim….all childish.
Whereas men actually do grow up. We accept the fact that life sucks, work and try to make the best of it. Women never learn this. They freak out and just cry 24/7 about how horrible life is. If you need proof, look at any rehab or jail system. Men turn off their brains, accept the new environment, adapt and live. Women on the other hand literally go insane. They act like a child being forced to take a time out. They kick and scream.
Hopefully someday women can learn things like confidence andnot taking life so seriously.
If you don’t give attention to women –> you are a misogynist.
If you give attention to women –> you are a pervert.
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