Fall of Roman Empire caused by 'contagion of homosexuality'

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

I want to make it clear that I do not hate gay people.  This is simply a fact in history that the rise of gay marriage have created the collapse in Rome.  This is also true today which gay people can marry easily and straight people being punished to marry.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8438210/Fall-of-Roman-Empire-caused-by-contagion-of-homosexuality.html

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[RoyDalParticipant]

Today we live in an era in which the worst vices are inscribed in law as human rights.
— from the article.

In my opinion, this is a symptom of a deeper and widespread problem, not the problem’s cause. While I’m bandying about my opinions, all civilizations (and corporations too) go through stages: growth, plateau, stagnation, decline.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[Anonymous 12]

I would say that Homosexuality was maybe a small part of the overall downfall. As the quote above attests to we do live in a period where anything goes unless it is traditional, religious and/or Male and White. This idea of tolerance as it’s called leads to apathy and even self hatred, in Australia we have had White Aussies convert to Islam and then go off and fight Jihad in the Middle East, why would someone do that? They are taught to hate everything White and Australian that is why, I could go on to list several other examples but I would be straying from the basic idea of this thread.

A society declines when it loses it’s self confidence and starts to believe that anything against it or is different to itself is superior. Also doesn’t help when an economic system is weighed down by welfare and stupid spending.

I do believe that a society that has a strong male culture will dominate one that is run for and by feminists.

 

[FrankOneParticipant 1443]

Not credible.  Military prowess and economics were the primary contributors; barbarian invasions, the split of the Eastern empire and its rise/wealth, slave labor, corruption, and a host of other reasons are generally agreed upon by historians.

Ancient Romans didn’t even have a word to describe homosexuality; rather sexuality was defined by who held the dominant (penetrative) role and passive role — ‘top’/’bottom’ in today’s parlance.  A respectable, freeborn citizen could have sex with men OR women, within certain rules — not with a freeborn man’s wife, or marriageable daughter, or another freeborn male, for instance.  A freeborn male, allowing himself to be penetrated, was DEFINITELY unacceptable.

Rich patrician tax-exempt Senators didn’t want to fight and the culture changed; attributing that to homosexuality seems a stretch.  Bear in mind homosexuality was also accepted in ancient Greece, including pederasty.  Sexual practices in the ancient world is an interesting topic indeed.

Incidentally, explicit legal prohibitions against gay marriage, only occurred late in the game, in the 4th century, after Christianization.

I think it’s a fair statement there was far more homosexuality in the ancient Western world than in the Modern western world.

[Biggvs_DickvsParticipant 3726]

Sorry dude, I gotta call complete bulls~~~ on this one.

The third punic war which the source cites as the great homosexual downfall ended before the impiracal phase of Rome even began, in 146 BC. That was almost two hundred years before the empiric phase even began.

Also, from it’s very beginning to the end (depending on your view of when the end was – I’ll go with Constantine’s conversion to Chistianity as a benchmark here), there was never any language in Roman culture that distinguished heterosexual from homosexual conduct. I.e. it was already so commonplace that they didn’t even have a word for it as a separate behaviour from any other kind of sexual conduct. The only thing they did have was the Lex Scantinia, a vague law designed to stop freeborn people from being taken advantage of sexually in their youth.  It basically made it a ‘crime’ for a freeborn to engage in non-dominant(top) sex or to take advantage of a youngster, and was mainly used as a political tactic to shame or persecute rivals.  If the person in question were a slave then all bets were off – Roman men regularly f~~~ed both their male and female slaves. At all stages of both the republic and the empire.

The guy in question should be thrown out on his ass, not for anything to do with his views on teh ghey, but for his blatant misrepresentation of verifiable historic fact while in a position of academic authority.

Roman laws an attitudes about sexuality were entirely concerned with who was the dominant party – who’s doing the f~~~ing and who’s getting f~~~ed,  with basically zero concern for the gender of the latter.

If want want a real head trip on the fall of the both the republic and then eventually the empire, do a little digging into the patterns of wealth concentration during both, and also the effects of displacing jobs of common free Romans with imported slave labor.

Some pretty freaky parallels start to emerge.

"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,

[Puffin StuffParticipant 25019]

In reading Livy, at least the translation I read and I only got as far as the Punic wars, in describing the Eutruscans, just North of Rome, Livy speaks about their derivation from Greeks.

Livy speaks of their sexual appetites extending as far as orgies in which a man having sex with a young man at the orgies end was particularly pleasent.

In the translation I read it there was no judgement.  No talk of this being a weakness or contributing to the eventual loss to Rome.

@Biggus, great summary.

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[Anonymous 11]

The Roman culture was so much different than our’s today on so many fronts that it’s truly an apples and oranges thing. They would probably think we are all a bunch of wimps with some really weird sex practices.

A big thing in common between them and us today is the Plutocrats, Politicians, and Parasites triangle relationship. The latter period of the Western Roman Empire saw the middle classes being crushed in a financial vise just like today.

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