Differences between MGTOW and MRA (Men's Rights Advocates)? My thoughts

[Smitty the Great OneParticipant 1535]

experienced wrote:

Didya mean “MRA’s are battling feminists and opining that MGTOW is Achilles sulking in his tent unwilling to fight.”

yeah man, oops…

Life is too long to play by someone elses rules....

[Anonymous 11]

Russky wrote:

MRA is socialistic approach to the problem (top down)
MGTOW is individualistic approach to the problem

Brilliant observation, Russky. MRA’s make the mistake of thinking one can negotiate with Satan. The main problem with MRAs is that they are trying to convince those who setup and benefit from the gynocracy to throw men some scraps. MGTOW’s just say f~~~ it. We don’t want your stinking scraps.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Anonymous wrote:

RusskyKGB wrote:

MRA is socialistic approach to the problem (top down) MGTOW is individualistic approach to the problem

Brilliant observation, Russky. MRA’s make the mistake of thinking one can negotiate with Satan. The main problem with MRAs is that they are trying to convince those who setup and benefit from the gynocracy to throw men some scraps. MGTOW’s just say f~~~ it. We don’t want your stinking scraps.

One can’t bargain with someone who has an agenda, all they can do is go off on their own and let them be, and build a fortress to survive.  You do look to build a network of support and resources, and allies and guard it.  You look to do what you are good at and partner.  You don’t fight to try to win, you just go off on your own and ignore them.  You don’t fight the battles where those who do you harm want to fight them.  You do it on your own terms.  Well, that is my take.  I personally now am getting too busy trying to be positive and get somewhere, to engage in MRA battles, and end up making myself a target of the Tumblrs who will berate, pull fire alarms and so on.  Now, it is easy for me to say all this in theory.  The practice is another issue completely.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[RusskyParticipant 13503]

Without MRAs backing us up, the hive might legislate MGTOW out of existence. We need MRAs, we need AVFM. They are on our side gentlemen, and degrading them and telling them to f~~~ off is childish and stupid.

This begs the following analogy. Say we have some corporation (say Monsanto) paying lobbyists to move their agenda (GMOs) into bills and into laws. How do you fight that? People opposing that agenda will have two different approaches to fight that.
– One approach would be to boycott Monsanto and vote with their dollar by buying organic, local or growing their own food (MGTOW way).
– Another approach would be – organizing, fundraising, getting their own lobby and pushing back utilizing the same existing methods Monsanto is using (MRA way).

If only first approach is utilized – sure, that would make a dent in Monsanto’s earnings, but that wouldn’t break Monsanto’s back. Because ignorant non-MGTOW folks (manginas) would still be eating GMOs. But I could hear it right f~~~ing now that MGTOWs would say – we don’t f~~~ing care about manginas or Monsanto – have them burn in hell. Dude?!!! That’s selfish alright? Do we want to break Monsanto’s (gynocentrism) back or not?

The answer is to utilize both approaches, and not in-fight with people who got your back. Of course, you might say – f~~~  them all, but what are you doing? you’re being a dick. Don’t you care about other mangina men and humanity in general? I cringe every time I read MGTOW say – the world is doomed. The only way to fix it – is to let society collapse and burn. Dude?!! Are you in a f~~~ing kindergarten? Mass extinction and depopulation is f~~~ing eugenics agenda. Do you realize you are subscribing under it? Might as well heil Hitler while you’re at it. F~~~ing kids that’s who you are. Selfish little pricks.

MGTOW and MRAs are different. But you need to realize they are both in defence of men. Don’t infight.
That’s all I have to say today
Cheers

proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Russky wrote:

Without MRAs backing us up, the hive might legislate MGTOW out of existence. We need MRAs, we need AVFM.  

How does one legislate MGTOW out of existence?  Does it force men to have sex on a regular basis and then pay for child support?  Does it round up all the single men and force them to have women.  Does it send them to reeducation camps if they decide to play by their own rules?

My take on MRA is they are doing little, if anything, to change anything.  They get mocked and laughed at, because the belief is men hold all the power.  They engage in activities that generally waste time, and any progress made by them would be either by individual men suing in courts, or Feminists tripping over their own feet and overextending themselves.

Pretty much anyone can Go their own way and not marry.  It is next to impossible to stop this.  The Nazis ended up pushing eroticism to get people to breed.  Does the state push porn?

I find yelling into the wind a huge waste of time.  I find actions, for myself, to strengthen myself, and help people who I can help, who help me, to be far better.  Because I am not having kids, or getting married, exactly what rights is MRA supposed to secure me, more grant money for college?  How about they raise a white male fund to help pay off my student loans?

Anyhow, please let me know how exactly MGTOW would get outlawed, unless I am missing something about hate speech or something.  Look at the language I use, and tell me what I am out of bounds.  Is saying SJW or Feminist a problem?  Even if laws require this forum to not be men only, going one’s own way can’t be stopped.

You can say what I am doing is very selfish and whatnot.  The nasty reality is I have very little power and can only fend for myself.  I need to get a job, for example.  I chased the wind with a dozen or so projects I had, and failed. I did Occupy, for example.  My only option to do is walk, gain strength, build up support and be able to dictate things by my terms, which I hope are sane.  Only by being able to walk, can someone begin to bargain with me.  I am done chasing the wind, and getting nowhere.  MRA can do what they want, but all they get is laughed at.  Well, on the plus side, I guess, they become a target of militant feminists, so I can be left alone.

I also care about people, but the best thing I can do is take care of myself, and maybe with extra, help others.  As of now, it is dire.  I personally would rather help other MGTOW go on their own, than go after political petitions and whatnot.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[RusskyParticipant 13503]

No one can stop men going their own way. But admit it, it would be nice if there was an organized force pushing against gynocentric laws, for paternity and reproductive rights, for capital preservation for those who earned it the hard way.
I exaggerated MGTOW being legislated out of existence, but if nobody pushes back, things will get more and more skewed towards women, making things harder for men in general. You might say – fine – this will only grow ranks of MGTOW folks. But what about poor brainwashed non-MGTOW men? You want to throw them under the bus of feminism reinforced by state? Most of us have been in their shoes – do you have any empathy for them poor men? Out brothers from another mothers? Why in fight?
I wouldn’t put anything off the table. The state has more and more powers with each day. Who knows what it comes up with? I don’t. But I was born in USSR and I know how extensive the oppression might get. You most likely don’t realize.
MGTOW and MRAs have a common enemy. If you don’t want to ally with them – that’s fine. But give credit when the credit is due. MRA might be weak right now, but it could become a formidable anti-feminism force one day. And it could be if MGTOW would back them up. MGTOW is for MGTOW – we aren’t going away. But MRA could be a great force in defending all other non-MGTOW men.
Again – why dismiss? why infight? Answer that

proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

What I know of the political system is, if you get a sufficiently large number of people with common views, politicians will pander to them, and take on these views.  What matters now is influence, which comes from numbers.  I have a world system that isn’t for me, and I have to make my own way through.  I welcome allies in the process, but there is no such thing as some sort of crusade I will join whose will impact the world by my joining.  This is particularly the case with strangers who have not committed to anything, and with myself.  I need to get a benefit of it.  Until then, I have to fend for myself.  I won’t get in the way of MRA.  I may speak against excesses, but for myself, it is go my own way and gain strength.  Be a leader and show me something.  Otherwise, there isn’t anything here, just wishful thinking.

The language you use is exactly what the Feminist side is using now, and they want engagement and war.  I am not giving them, or any other powers that be, any sort of this type of engagement at all.  I fight in life differently, at the right place and time.  And first and foremost, it involves me doing it.

Regard the MRA side, what do you want me to do?  Be specific.  I can help if you can do the following:

* Get me a job that pays enough to pay off my student loans and save up for retirement.  My student loans, which started at $45K are now over $70K and my Masters in Information Systems is not being used and after over a decade of being downsized by IBM, it doesn’t even look like I am going to get close to what I was making.

* Show me sufficiently large numbers of people who are involved and will assure success.

* Show me a clear list of demands, and how to get them to be achieved.

* Name some other things you will do for me personally, which I haven’t think of, that is appealing.

If you don’t do this, why would I get involved with MRA, when I don’t have kids, am not married, and likely not to be.

 

For myself, this enemy is the rotting current system, that is broken in far more ways that what you think that it is just women and a system supporting them.  I have done enough failed battles and have gone into Monk Mode. I recall a quote how saints save people, but activists leave nothing but rubble (I wish I could find it).  As of now, I need to heal and be a grown up.  I don’t fight battles without a know list and known support and knowing it will work.  I can’t speak for anyone else and what they do, just myself.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Billy Joel’s Angry Young Man sums up where I am with crusades:

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

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