Home › Forums › Philosophy › Confessions From a Recovering White Knight
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Y_ 2 years, 12 months ago.
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So it’s been awhile since I’ve checked into the forums. Got a new job, getting a new place, making a lot of changes that I didn’t see the purpose of before going my own way. Changes that need to be made.
In terms of the Kubler-Ross model — and I firmly believe that taking the red pill is a grief process, in so far as how humans generally deal with paradigm changes (denial to anger to bargaining to depression to acceptance) — I’ve spent my journey so far moving through denial and anger to bargaining. This time last year, I was still sort of wrapping my head around how far down the rabbit hole it went; just how much of my life was a lie.
And then I was angry.
Eh, that doesn’t quite do it justice: I was f~~~ing furious. And, as I tend to cope with rage, I internalized it and dragged the stage out longer than I should have. But about the time I signed up here, I realize now that I was at the bargaining stage. Still trying to figure out just what the hell I’m supposed to do with all this information, this change, this critical shift in my life and, well… secretly hoping I could arrive at some bittersweet point of unifying this information with that underlying want to still pair-bond with a woman.
I know now that was the bargaining stage because I’m currently at the stage of depression.
And while depression invariably leads to acceptance, it’s a brutal road so far and what I’m coming to accept has been far harder to swallow, especially when I drag my own past out into the sunlight for scrutiny. And I need to get it off my chest — to undergo some catharsis for it — and I have no other brothers in MGTOW to turn to, save here. So, with that in mind, on we go.
//
Of the MGTOW archetypes (because we could be here discussing nuance all day, it’s just easier for explanation to cite a few of the headliner origins and move on with the tale), I’m most readily fit into the demographic of “Former White Knight”.
I can distinctly recall spending my teenage years putting women on pedestals for no reason outside of them being women and openly attacking men who disagreed. Sometimes on forums, sometimes with fists. And I felt pride for it. I was encouraged and rewarded for it. But I was also frequently friend-zoned, as white knights are, and the resentment of it pricked at me until, after college, when I took that and turned myself into something worse: I became the guy girls f~~~ed. More specifically: I became the guy girls f~~~ed when they got fed up with their boyfriends.
When I look back on it now, this was still a corruption of the white knight Savior Complex: I was giving them things other guys couldn’t manage and I justified my actions by being up front with being a good, quick, easy lay. Of my 20’s, more than half of my sexual partners were women already in relationships. And because, deep down, I was still that white knight idiot, I caught feelings with more than one of them and was (rightfully) crushed for it.
The rest of them were my full blown attempts to be The Savior: the drug addict, the girl sexually abused by her father, the bipolar, the manic depressive, the rape survivor, the rebound… I can’t think of a single woman I slept with that I wasn’t trying to “save” from herself or her boyfriend (you know, because all of them were “such assholes” /s).
Every time I hear a story or watch a MGTOW video or read a thread that cites the guy girls run to for the no-attachment f~~~, it’s like a knife to my gut. I’m that guy. My shame, to its hilt, is that I’m that guy for more men than I have the spine to mention.
And yeah, I’ve run through the excuses: they’re all blue pills anyway, I only accelerated the inevitable, maybe it woke one of them up, I didn’t really understand the repercussions, etc. etc. etc. I destroyed relationships — I ruined lives and futures — with my own hands and while it’s tearing me apart I can’t help but think that it should. In a just world, do I not deserve some return of harm?
I don’t know how to move out of depression into acceptance with this. I don’t know how to reconcile myself with this realization, especially with it bearing down on me now like the headless horseman, all my old white knight armor animated and set back upon me. And I know that acceptance does not necessarily mean approval, but… f~~~, reconciling this part of myself feels unequivocally impossible. Especially now, when I irreversibly know what I’ve done and with how much I revile my part in perpetuating a cycle of harm for good and well-intentioned men.
I’ll come to grips with it eventually. I’ll have to. Ideally not at the barrel of a gun or neck of a bottle (that’s not my style), but right now, dead center in the storm, all I can see is how much damage I did in the name of pussy… and I’m not of the mind to forgive myself for it.
Rant’s over. Thanks for hearing me out.
"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis
Good post bro you won’t get shamed or judged here that’s for c~~~s and manginas to do. Glad you made it out to the red side.
Aloha means family you don't leave family behind. Who will be the next Draconarius for MGTOW? MGTOW = brothers = acceptance = belonging
Good post! You have seen things clearly and then taken positive action to solve them. This is rare and good.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
Been there myself, and I think you’re spot on with the stages of grief. Taking the red pill causes some major cognitive dissonance, and it’s very difficult to accept that the reality you were comfortable with was a false one.
You’ve made a vulnerable admission and I hope the rest of the crew treats you with kindness.
When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.
I think you are still a white knight. You see yourself as the guilty party in those scenarios where women cheat on their partners with you. What do you imagine would happen if you rejected those women? Do you seriously believe they’d see the errors of their ways, go back to their original partners and live together happily ever after? Dude, those relationships were already doomed before you even came into the picture! If it weren’t you, there were already multiple other Chads waiting in line. You are stripping those cheating women from all responsibility and taking all the blame and putting it on your shoulders, seeing yourself as the cause, while being only a symptom of their failed unions. Maybe you still see them as divine creatures who can do no wrong?
So take a good look at yourself, bring that white suit of armor to your nearest blacksmith and trade it in for something more suitable. May I suggest steel tempered to deep blue with gilded couters and poleyns? I hear it’s all the rage nowadays.
I'm no white knight, Sir. Give me a strong suit of armour, a swift steed and the open road and stick the hand of the princess up your arse. I've no ring to put on it and I'm fresh out of fucks to give.
I believe he is in the early stages of becoming red pill or as I prefer to call it discovering reality and how the world really is.
http://www.leavemeansleave.eu
It IS what it IS, and I mean All of it. Sometimes, you just have to ACCEPT things the way they are. Put them on a shelf, and MOVE ON with YOUR life.
No TIME for self-blame/hatred.
Get out of your head, and get on with doing what YOU WANT to do !!
In a World of Justin Beibers Be a Johnny Cash
I’m reminded of the story of the two Buddhist monks walking down a road where they come across a woman trying to get over a large pool of water. One of the monks picks her up and carries her over the water. They continue their walk for about 30 minutes. Finally the other monk says “I can’t believe you carried that woman over the water! We took a vow to never touch women!” The first monk says “I only carried her over the water. You’ve been carrying her for the last half hour.” Stop holding on to the past.
Put another way, the only perfect person to ever walk the face of the earth was put nailed to a cross and killed. So stop expecting perfection of out yourself. You screwed up. Learn from it. Don’t do it again.
As Knight Errant said, these were relationships that were already doomed. I’ve been cheated on multiple times, and the one thing I learned is that the person you should be p~~~ed at is her. The one that really bothered me was the one guy that KNEW she had a boyfriend, but did it anyway. But I was still more p~~~ed at her than him.
You are beating yourself up and the girls have already moved on to the next guy(s) looking for resources. They got exactly what they wanted, so why should you feel guilty?
Hope this helps.
Order the good wine
Good post WDR, I posted something in another thread about my struggles with the red pill medicine. Some wise-ass bro on one thread called me a wuss. That only made me feel certain he doesn’t have a clue what it means to be in a space where you have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and really man up by forging your own future out of ashes. I’m not being sneaky here and would be up to a challenge, however, I’ve made up my mind since being here for a while that my trusty walking cane is nicknamed IGNORE. That’s what I do to the ex as much as is possible (kids being involved there are limits). The reason I mention it here is to show you that I’m just one of many here that struggle with the effects of red pilling it and that obviously not all bros go through the same kinds of experiences. I hear ya bro.
Know when it is your duty to give them zero explanations for your actions.
I’ll never forgive White Knights. F~~~ you!
"The secret to happiness is freedom... And the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides
Woah, that seems a bit harsh. We’ve all f~~~ed up at some point (as far as I know that is). Can you blame people for white knighting when they’re socially conditioned by family, friends, school, and media from day 1? To me it’s amazing that anyone can break free of that.
Women are better at multitasking? Fucking up several things at once is not multitasking.
I think you are still a white knight. You see yourself as the guilty party in those scenarios where women cheat on their partners with you. What do you imagine would happen if you rejected those women? Do you seriously believe they’d see the errors of their ways, go back to their original partners and live together happily ever after? Dude, those relationships were already doomed before you even came into the picture! If it weren’t you, there were already multiple other Chads waiting in line. You are stripping those cheating women from all responsibility and taking all the blame and putting it on your shoulders, seeing yourself as the cause, while being only a symptom of their failed unions. Maybe you still see them as divine creatures who can do no wrong?
So take a good look at yourself, bring that white suit of armor to your nearest blacksmith and trade it in for something more suitable. May I suggest steel tempered to deep blue with gilded couters and poleyns? I hear it’s all the rage nowadays.
To answer your questions: they’d have found another guy to f~~~, the relationships would have ended, and women are destructive creatures.
But, you’re projecting the source of my guilt from a wellspring that is not mine.
My shame, to its hilt, is that I’m that guy for more men than I have the spine to mention.
That’s not a typo. The guilt I feel is my part in harming them. This doesn’t make me the sole party; but neither is the woman.
If I were to run a red light — in, say, the selfishness of wanting to get somewhere more quickly regardless of the law — and put someone in oncoming traffic in the hospital, would your logic be that I should feel no guilt because it was the car that did the damage and they, statistically, would have wound up in the hospital eventually, anyway? It’s all a danger, traffic collisions happen all the time, there were thousands of other motorists bound to hit them.
Nuance is something that I feel is lost on most humans, especially today. Taking responsibility is not taking all responsibility; I can feel guilt for my share without stripping it from others — though admittedly, as a man, I know it is our lot to feel guilt and loss of control more deeply. Seeing myself as a symptom instead of the cause (and I’m well aware I was a symptom) does not absolve me of serving as emotional proxy violence for yet another woman to visit upon a man. And even then it is not that I was a part of it, but that I was a willing component of destruction for men who, by and large, didn’t deserve what happened to them.
I am taking a careful look at myself and I will take your caution in full, but just because I was “the next Chad in line” doesn’t relieve me of responsibility for stepping up to the window instead of stepping aside.
I’m reminded of the story of the two Buddhist monks walking down a road where they come across a woman trying to get over a large pool of water. One of the monks picks her up and carries her over the water. They continue their walk for about 30 minutes. Finally the other monk says “I can’t believe you carried that woman over the water! We took a vow to never touch women!” The first monk says “I only carried her over the water. You’ve been carrying her for the last half hour.” Stop holding on to the past.
Put another way, the only perfect person to ever walk the face of the earth was put nailed to a cross and killed. So stop expecting perfection of out yourself. You screwed up. Learn from it. Don’t do it again.
Excellent parables, but more easily said than done.
As Knight Errant said, these were relationships that were already doomed. I’ve been cheated on multiple times, and the one thing I learned is that the person you should be p~~~ed at is her. The one that really bothered me was the one guy that KNEW she had a boyfriend, but did it anyway. But I was still more p~~~ed at her than him.
That “one guy” was me, for multiple men. And, as meaningless as it may be for me to say so, I’m sorry.
My anger is directed at the woman, but my regret and the anger I feel for myself is because of the damage I artlessly and willfully did to the boyfriends. If I were an ignorant part until it was too late, perhaps your and Knight Errant’s advice would have more purchase, but I operated in clear knowledge that my actions would directly betray another man. That would be what I’m having the most trouble reconciling; not her feelings or what was going through her head, but knowing what was going through mine while I aided and abetted the woman’s destructiveness.
You are beating yourself up and the girls have already moved on to the next guy(s) looking for resources. They got exactly what they wanted, so why should you feel guilty?
Hope this helps.
I am guilty because of the guys moved on from. I am not entirely the guilty party and the guilt is not mine to solely claim, true, but there is a portion of responsibility I must accept as mine and it breaks me to know how it affected those men. Even if it is purposeless empathy, it is empathy I should still allow myself to feel.
I’ll never forgive White Knights. F~~~ you!
This level of honesty is why I posted this here instead of trying to mention any of this elsewhere.
I’m not looking for your forgiveness, I’m trying to find my own. But I don’t fault you for saying so.
Woah, that seems a bit harsh. We’ve all f~~~ed up at some point (as far as I know that is). Can you blame people for white knighting when they’re socially conditioned by family, friends, school, and media from day 1? To me it’s amazing that anyone can break free of that.
The social conditioning is no joke; I still haven’t seen just how deeply rooted it is and I learn every day some new aspect of even entirely menial habits and thoughts that trace back to a lifetime of being rewarded for white-knighting (and brutally punished for straying from the path).
I’m not sure I can say I’m free from it — there’s a long path of self-discovery and breaking habits laid out ahead of me — but I have to start somewhere, right?
"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis
That “one guy” was me, for multiple men. And, as meaningless as it may be for me to say so, I’m sorry.
I can say this now, many years later. That guy did me a favor. I gave my love to someone who didn’t deserve it. And it took a pretty brutal kick in the nuts to find that out. But I dodged a bullet with her. There would have come a time when I really needed someone to be there for me, and she wouldn’t have been there.
So, as you say you’re sorry, I’m saying “Thank you.”
Just my opinion, but I think you just need some more time. And there is nothing wrong with reflecting on what you did and what you regret. It helps make you a better person. And it was pretty cool of you to post this so that any other guys out there beating themselves up know they are not alone. Maybe that’s the biggest silver lining to all of this, helping another man by admitting your mistakes and how it eats you up. Maybe some other guy will think twice.
One final thought: THIS is the reason MGTOW exists. It’s for topic like this. These are the topics people ignore while they try to shame us back on to the plantation. Calling us losers in the basement. It’s topics like this that give us the strength to eat shaming language like Tic Tacs.
Well done brother. Well done.
Order the good wine
The rest of them were my full blown attempts to be The Savior: the drug addict, the girl sexually abused by her father, the bipolar, the manic depressive, the rape survivor, the rebound… I can’t think of a single woman I slept with that I wasn’t trying to “save” from herself or her boyfriend (you know, because all of them were “such assholes” /s).
First thing you were a f~~~ing dumbass in trying to save these women, you do not know what type of s~~~ a drug addict, a rape victim, the maniac, and the bipolar women could have done to you. And you should not have played Captain save a hoe and just let these women die alone with their cats like they are supposed to.
Second you still show white knight traits such as blaming yourself for your failed relationships, even when you should stop giving a s~~~ about them.
And finally you will need time and more red pills you need to swalllow before you rid yourself of blue pill behaviors it personally took me around 6 months to do it. You might take longer if you were deeper in the blue pill then i was.
Just an east coast asshole who likes to curse, If you get offended by words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, bitch or any racial slurs then you just scroll down.
@AnonymousYams: You’re the kind of guy who sees a man standing on the ledge of a building and says “hurry up and jump!”, aren’t you?
Look, man… I’m well aware of the s~~~ girls like that can get you into: I was there for it. I can’t really take anything else you said to heart, unfortunately — you already proved you don’t know my path and the rest of your advice is either projection or meant for someone else.
"Almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in... The danger is that of coming to love the prison." ~ C.S. Lewis
We all have to deal with our past in our own way. The path you have chosen to walk is for you and you alone. No one can lay our demons to rest save ourselves.
That said the past IS the past. We all live on borrowed time.
Actions alone determine who and what we are.Welcome and peace be.
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