Clueless

[NeutrinoParticipant 3]

Hello there!

This is going to be a very disjointed introduction I’m afraid, I don’t quite know where to begin.

Perhaps I should first start by saying that I am still trying to wrap my head around what this website really is and what MGTOW really is. I have many questions and in truth, the FAQ only made me have more questions. The biggest fish is also the most obvious one: what exactly is MGTOW?

I registered this account but decided to take a shower before I posted. Doing dishes and showering, for some odd reason, allows me to think much more clearly.

Presently, I’ve concluded that this place seems to be about independence, about self-reliance, about critically observing a lifetime’s worth of social conditioning. Perhaps I am mistaken. Perhaps it is more. Perhaps it is less. I don’t know, but I am eager to find out.

A little more about myself: I am 22, live in The Netherlands and honestly just today stumbled, completely by accident, across this site. I actually came across a video by a certain Loremaster8953 on Youtube. I was puzzled, confused, trying to understand what his ramblings were about. Yet I couldn’t deny they spoke to me. So then I googled what MTGOW stood for, and as a result I am now here; just as clueless, but all the more intrigued.

If this place is about criticizing society’s many strange conceptions, then I am all ears. To share something personal: I personally dislike the taste of beer. I just don’t like it. Yet in Dutch society, 16 was (it has recently been upped to 18) the legal drinking age and you were expected to drink and enjoy it. I tried a few times, never liked it. I won’t say I’ve gotten any major backlash from being a non-drinker, but I still get raised eyebrows when I tell people I don’t drink because I don’t like the taste (nor do I enjoy the company of extremely drunk people while I am completely sober).

Don’t get me wrong, if you like your beer, by all means enjoy it. What I don’t get however is society enforcing these standards on us. Supposedly drinking beer is manly. I don’t believe that. It’s just a drink.

I could go on about other things that irk me, but before I do, I would rather test the waters first…

Again, I am not exactly sure what all of this is about, but I am curious. Perhaps it just requires one person responding to this for me to understand, perhaps it will require more thought and reflection…I honestly don’t know.

Cheers!

[AussieBlokeParticipant 144]

Hi Neutrino, I am new also, but your mention of social drinking struck a cord with me.

As an Australian man, it is expected that you will drink beer also, that drinking culture is even worse when you look specifically at the Australian Army.

Officially the Army here denies there is a drinking culture and to be perfectly honest they are working towards reducing it.

Unofficially, when I was a young man (joined at age 17) drinking was not just expected, you were actually ostracized if you refused to join in.

That sets you  up for a life of many difficulties if you are an easily influenced young man who feels compelled to drink, and it then becomes a lifelong habit.

Good on you for not buckling under that pressure.

The harder the fight the sweeter the victory

[…Spectator 1165]

Hi Neutrino: ListenUp! here. Great way to come in and introduce yourself. If I were your age, I would probably be confused about it as well.

The website is huge and takes awhile to go through (about 300 hours in my estimation). If you go to Youtube and look at the most prolific MGTOW poster there (Sandman) it will take you 60 hours just to watch the videos he posted.

So take your time and read and think about things. It may be awhile before you get it. I was already a MGTOW before I got here but I still did more than 100 hours of research and more than 50 hours of thinking before I came in and starting saying stuff like “Holy f~~~ing s~~~! That s~~~ is TRUE.”

I’ve been here about two months now and as far as I can see it is a very diverse group of guys. There are some gamers that never left their mom’s basement. There are some PUA’s that are just here sharpening their game. There are also two groups that I champion very rigorously and they are 01 men going through divorce and taking their first red pills (or already divorced guys) and 02 Military Vets who have been sold down the river by the system and their wives.

If we have anything like a “cliff notes” version of what MGTOW is, I think it is the video by Sandman called “Introduction to MGTOW” on Youtube. Sandman is in his mid 30’s and he is a smart guy who cranks out content like a bitch. he’s a machine. At the forums here, the boss is this guy named Keymaster. Keymaster is like Sandman but I think he has f~~~ed a lot more girls hahahaha. He also designed the forums and the website.

Anyway, great way to come in and introduce yourself. Welcome!

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Philosophy is as much about art as it is reason.  With that being said look at it as you would a painting.  Some men enjoy the painting and marvel over it.  Others hate it a view it as a waste of space.  The painting is just a painting.  MGTOW is just MGTOW.  Take it for what it is worth.

If you are accepted for your views well good on you.  If you are rejected, so what.  Nothing lasts.  I came here for discussion.  I wanted to discuss a number of topics and practice basic writing skills.

Eventually I will push the edge and get kicked off.  Not today however.  With that being said enjoy your stay and learn what you can, because there is a lot to learn and a lot to discuss.

[BrainPilotParticipant 7640]

Welcome Neutrino,
When I was 22, (I’m 48 now), I remember my dad and other older men saying to me, “I wish I could be your age again and know at that age what I know now…”. I heard that so often that finally I started challenging them. I finally said to my Dad once, “What the hell do I need to know and why aren’t you just telling me???”. I was very sincere at the time, and he could see I was listening and wanted to know what he was talking about.

He paused and thought for few minutes. This is a self made guy who was married for over 40 years with a bunch of kids – the most consistent, dedicated, stable, determined, reliable person I’d ever known. He spoke with the experience and hindsight of being 3 decades ahead of me in life, so when he spoke I paid attention. He basically said, “I wish I could, but there are some things you have to learn from your own experience. You can’t go through life making decisions based on my perceptions and judgement or you will never have those skills of your own. But you should not assume that everything is as it appears to be on its face. The sooner you realize that, the sooner your judgement and perceptions will improve enough to see them for yourself…”. It was not the answer I wanted because it wasn’t simple. I wanted him to tell me what he knew. And he was telling me to how learn fro myself what he knew.

I know now what he could not tell me at the time, and I am more free to speak of it than he was. There is still the obstacle of trying to explain something in language that delivers the same value as the experience, but I’ll try using something you mentioned in your post. You mentioned that you don’t like beer and that struck a cord with me because at your age, I had the exact same experience with and reaction to drinking alcohol. I just didn’t see the appeal.

So presently, you are expected to drink alcohol and to like it. The expectation is placed on you by people who say it’s good for you. But you wonder why they would care that much about the quality of your life and suspect it may be that they feel better about their own drinking if they can get everyone else to drink with them. If you continue to refuse, you may take ostricism and be criticized for it. But if your experience is like mine was, you’ll end up being the designated driver that everyone wants to have at the party…

I could have spent all day long talking to you and still not have adequately described to you how beer was going to taste to you the first time you tried it. You had to try it and experience that for yourself. And when you did, it only took a few seconds for you to know and make a decision for yourself …

There are other things that may be expected of you by other people…positions you should take in relationships and roles you should assume with other people as you go through life. Some of these things may be good for you and after you try them, you may or may not decide that they are for you. But there are some things that are so toxic that if you try them once, they can hurt you so bad that you will never fully recover. Someone talked you into trying beer. But no one is going to be able to talk you into trying cyanide or arsenic… assuming you understand them for what they are in advance.

Your father and grandfather may have set an example of getting married, buying a house, having a wife and family and woking hard to fulfill your expected role. They may expect you to follow that example. Women you meet and date will almost certainly expect and even demand that you fulfill that role. They may really even believe that this is the best option for you. Even though it was never a great deal for men, your father and grandfather may have found it the most acceptable from options available to them when they were your age.

But the reaction to that role that they assumed is much different now than it was when they were your age. And the results for the men who attempt it today are beginning to resemble the results of cyanide more than closely than the results of beer.

Mgtow might best be described for you as a collection of guys who say, “I’ve tried this and found it to be toxic and I’m not willing to sample it again regardless of how many other people expect me to enjoy it…” along with other guys who say, “This doesn’t smell right to me…what’s on the label doesn’t seem to be what’s actually in the bottle…and it’s made of bunch of other guys so horribly sick that I don’t think I’m willing to try it even once…”

In this analogy, Mgtow are the guys who say, “I think I’ll just go make my own drinks from things I already know are safe and enjoyable to me… and disregard people who try to impose on me their expectations for what they think I should be drinking with dinner…”.

Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you

[NeutrinoParticipant 3]

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome. I find it almost alarming how, when I woke up this morning, I knew nothing of MGTOW -didn’t even know it existed- and now, about fourteen hours later, I can’t stop watching videos, reading articles and just learning more.

In the same breath, I can’t honestly say I agree with everything. For one I spotted something from infowars here which I personally consider to be a highly unreliable source. Having said that, there are also many things I can relate to. Education is something I find very important and over the past six years or so, I’ve heard or read whispers. Whispers that the current Education system in many countries is largely disadvantageous to boys. I think I am the living proof of that. School was fine up till I hit puberty, stopped listening, and started procrastinating instead. That habit still hurts me now and I genuinely think that school had a hand in that.

I won’t dodge responsibility though. Habits may be triggered by external factors but in the end, I can’t say anyone person made me procrastinate.

But I digress…

The fact that most of you can relate to the ‘drinking problem’ goes to show that this place is more of what I hoped it to be and less of what I feared it to be,

@brainpilot your answer in particular is very much appreciated. Thank you for your thoughts and -would you believe it?- I was actually just about to open a new thread and see what wisdoms some of the older member here might reveal to me. It’s not so much that I have a specific question, but one thing I certainly noticed as that -from my twenties on forward- I’ve begun to reflect much much more on what the hell I was doing.

There are certain things I regret when being a teen, so I only thought it logical to seek the advice of those older than me. You sort of already answered the question by telling me that there are certain things I should undergo myself. I can understand that. I am not looking for a nice little list of things to avoid, but I am still curious if there are not things that I could learn from my fellow males here…(given the advantage of hindsight).

I think I’ve already learnt that marriage deserves scrutinity. I never before even realized how absurd the idea really is…to let the state bind you, or a religious institution…I know my sister’s boyfriend doesn’t want to marry either and I can now very much respect that choice.

Apologies for the directionless reply, I am still in the process of wrapping my head around this 🙂 Again, thanks for the welcome!

[…Spectator 1165]

Neutrino: it was a f~~~ing quick 14 hours wasn’t it? yes, educational system is f~~~ed up the ass. i have a lot of musician friends that are teachers now and they are going through unbelievable horrible s~~~ just trying to teach guitar and s~~~. one guy now can’t even have females over to his studio because some teenage bitch testing her wings went to her mom when she got called out for not practicing and said the buzzwords: “I feel uncomfortable” “He was mean” “he’s creepy”  etc. holy f~~~ing s~~~. all he said was “you didn’t practice and you’ll have to do better next week.” I mean Jesus the F~~~ Lunatic Christ man. same is happening at community college level, 4 year college, and PITY the poor f~~~er teaching high school and middle school right now when every young female is learning their way through interactions with boys and men. we have no defense in place against that s~~~ and I am REALLY glad I don’t have to do it!

RE Alex Jones, I f~~~ing love him in small doses. He’s like the Pitbull of anti mainstream and once in awhile he really has something and the rest of the time he is scaring the s~~~ out of people. so the f~~~ what. I’m happy for what I learn from him. I think that he is one of the smarter guys promoting an agenda out there because he has the whole show on a phone number. that just kicks ass to me. when i’m driving around with some of my married guy friends and giving them stern warnings and they get p~~~ed off, I just say “you think I’m bad?” listen to this f~~~ing guy and we just call up like a regular call the show is on there, no web streaming needed. genius. my advice to you is, do your thing. have an open mind. take what makes sense from here and disregard the rest.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Neutrino loved your intro and big smile here that you are scratching your head a little. But you seem to have a basic grasp and an inquisitive mind . MANY MGTOW (if you read introductions) KNOW what they are. One – just this morning – thanking his personal God because for the last 14 years he’s been convinced he lives alone in his thoughts on a remote island.

You arrive and are looking for it to be explained or shown to you.
HE arrives, knows he’s home and thinks it’s like f~~~ing Disney World.

You cannot be shown or taught to understand it. It’s a step of discovery and can take years. You may very well reject everything you find. in which case, we all wish you well on your quest. Much of it (including the FAQ) is lightly peppered (intentionally) with a little satire and FULL-ON UNBRIDLED BRUTAL HONESTY. Very difficult to tell the two apart.. leaving it strictly up to you how to perceive it. The faq are just plain honest and direct answers which people are simply not prepared to receive.

When you are 100% direct and honest in your personal or professional life, people don’t know what to make of it. They don’t know whether its good or bad, right or wrong, if you’re kidding, a comedian, or an asshole. It confuses the s~~~ out of people.

Same thing here.

A new visitor would be “is this for real”? But a seasoned MGTOW will know what to LOL at – and what is extremely serious. The very first comment on our website was from a female “Is this for real? It seems kinda over done”. Excellent first comment. She confused. Damn right it’s over done. We didn’t even need to put 1/100th of the effort in. We could have just typed it out on a page. We don’t need to make Hollywood-style visual effects to make the point. But that’s what makes people realize that most of what they see ALL THE TIME is their own perception instead of reality. In overblowing it, the are now forced to ask themselves some questions.

As you visit and read introductions, you will be moved, infuriated, laugh your head off, call bulls~~~, and cry, probably…..

The main reason you’re not sure what MGTOW is about, is because YOU decide that for yourself. So my meaning (and end game) will be very different from Brain Pilot’s (for example)… but the second he showed up here, any MGTOW could tell he was already seasoned.

It’s not the answer that drives us.
It’s the QUESTION.

Welcome very much.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

Hi there Neutrino and welcome. I also was one of the people (like Keymaster metioned) who felt right at home here from the very start and got hooked into it straight away, having discovered within no time that I actually had been living the very MGTOW lifestyle for a few years now without even consciously knowing it and it just (still) thrills me no end that I found so many like minded people here (again even though maybe not agreeing a 100% with absolutely everybody but the coarse basis being there) and honestly within the first say 24 to 48 hours after having joined just over a week ago I literally got addictively hooked to this very pace like a moth to the light straight after I had watched probably 40% of Sandmans videos (as in my case just for reassurance or strengthening my resolve really, but anyway). As most of the others had already pointed out for everybody in here, be they seasoned or have they just joined, there clearly is s~~~ loads to be learned at to discuss about, so do take your picks keep an open mind and just yeah well:   —> go yer own way…

Regards

 

Ned T.

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[GoneGaltParticipant 361]

What Ned Trent said! Same for me several weeks back – I stumbled across the “Sexodus” articles and then looked up what every term meant that I didn’t understand (red pill, beta, herbivore, orbiter, MGTOW, manosphere, etc) and then began a haphazard but enlightening trip across the manosphere in sheer fascination at the extent to which my prior ‘knowledge’ about females and relationships was wrong. I’m still learning but I’m pretty sure I have a good core understanding, which I’ve already used to ease out of beta friendships with 2 women who have been using me and which I’ve used to re-evaluate my past experiences with women, not to blame them 100% for what went wrong but understand the things that have been unknowable to me before. I’ve made my share of honest mistakes but so much of what I thought were my failings turned out not to be, I was manipulated into believing they were. None of my learning has led me to hate the female, but it helps to know what species of spider that’s crawling across your arm, a harmless Daddy long-legs or a dangerous Black widow.

My current YouTube subscriptions (I watch or listen to the videos on my wide-screen TV downstairs) include the following MGTOW or MGTOW-friendly voices:

Terrence Pop
Spetznaz
Aaron Clarey
Sandman
bar bar (Barbarossa)
Roosh V (really ‘game’ author, not MGTOW per se)

I’ve also read “The Manipulated Man”, which interestingly was written by a woman, which you can download for free here – it’s a great introduction to what women really are:

http://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/the_manipulated_man.pdf

I’m now working on “The Book of Zed” but it’s a lot longer than the previous one – both apparently are seminal in the evolution of MGTOW thinking – here’s a free download link:

http://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/book_of_zed_the_zen_priest.pdf

Of course I’ve availed myself as well of many audio and video resources found at this site in Archives – the more you simply listen to at random, the clearer things become. Finally, I read as many of the stories in the forums here to seek reality from what men themselves are relating as to their experiences, since one man alone cannot have every experience possible. As crazy as you might have thought women seemed to you before, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

Welcome and good luck 🙂

 

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