Catalonia, Worth keeping an eye on

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-catalonia-boxes/police-in-catalonia-hunt-for-hidden-ballot-boxes-in-bid-to-foil-referendum-idUKKCN1BQ2N7

Police in Catalonia hunt for hidden ballot boxes in bid to foil referendum

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41284764

Catalonia referendum: Spanish state poised to seize Catalan finances

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=2443307&CategoryId=12395

Catalonia Leaders Urge Spain’s King, PM to Negotiate Independence Referendum

This is going to be interesting to watch. Has the potential to be a linchpin for other areas around the EU, then potentially the world.
The Spanish state is attempting to halt the vote, might push it even more into the just might happen area.
With the serious mess the EU policy has made of Europe, and Spain in one of the worst positions. Can not blame them for wanting leave.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[Anonymous 3]

Quote from the first link:

“They are persecuting mayors, the press, printers. They are stretching the limits of democracy.”

I don’t know the exact situation, but I agree to this part. Using these methods definitely does not look like a democracy.

Worst part: a dictatorship with all the electronic mass surveillance the police has everywhere, can never be stopped, it’s an everlasting dictatorship, big danger to the mankind. Now they stop a referendum, next time they do worse…

The whole thing feels like the old story told many times about the frog who may jump out of hot water but if it is put into cold water and then heated up slowly it may not jump out. (hope it is just a concept and no animals were harmed to test it)

[Joey AlfioParticipant]

I’m all for the people of Catalonia wanting independence.

Δεν υπάρχει τίποτε αδύνατο γι’ αυτόν που θα προσπαθήσει. - Μέγας Αλέξανδρος

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

Madrid is taking a very hard line that might backfire.
What is going to be interesting is if Catalonia happens, then the Basque area that has always wanted its own state in the north of Spain will be all upon this like a hungry man.
Then if it hits right Basque area in the south of France. The Scots and Wales. Not all Germans are happy with mother Merkel. The French speaking area in Canada has from time to time spoken out. Just as starters.
Will change what the globalist want to accomplish.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[OldBillParticipant]

The EU bureaucrats in Brussels do not like separatists the least little bit. That’s because they don’t want the success of one separatist region to influence all the other separatist regions in the EU.

The various nations paying the EU’s bills all have separatist movements of one type or another. France has them, Italy has them, Germany has them, even Belgium wants to split into Flemings and Walloons. None of those nations are going to allow the EU to even think about making it easy for a separatist region to join.

During the Scots independence ballot, the SNP was shocked to hear from Brussels that an independent Scotland wouldn’t be “grandfathered” into the EU. Scotland would have to go through the same multi-year treaty and chapter process all prospective members do and Catalonia is going to be told the same thing Scotland was.

Making matters worse, France, who has to deal with their own Basque separatists, is going the seal the Catalonia-French border in a heartbeat. If the independence vote wins, a relatively small Catalonia is going to find itself bordered by a hostile France and Spain while waiting years to be allowed entry into the EU and the continent’s various trade organizations.

Those will be very hard years.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[AttonParticipant]

Spanish law has screwed men the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Spanish Constitution is toilet paper if it cannot ensure the most basic rights of all citizens. Independence honestly sounds entirely reasonable given the nature of things in Spain.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[OldBillParticipant]

Atton wrote:

Independence honestly sounds entirely reasonable given the nature of things in Spain.

Independence may very well be reasonable, but independence is not going to come with automatic membership in all the various organizations and other treaties Spain currently enjoys. An independent nation has borders and responsibilities, borders with and responsibilities to other nations. Just what can and cannot cross those borders will have to be negotiated.

Spain, for example, isn’t going to send electricity produced in Spain to Catalonia as if nothing has happened. Ditto water. If the reservoir is in Spain, it won’t be supplying taps in Catalonia without some agreement in place. Roads and rails will be closed too. Flights originating in Catalonia will not be granted landing privileges in other nations until Catalonia becomes a signatory to a myriad of international agreements on air travel and security. Goods produced in Catalonia aren’t going to cross into Spain or France without negotiated agreements either.

Currency will be a huge problem. The EU isn’t going to let an independent Catalan use the euro without several complicated financial agreements in place, agreements that will take time to negotiate. In the meantime, any euros passing through Catalonia banks will heavily discounted by banks in all nations.

The EU flatly told Scotland all of this during the referendum there and Catalonia will be told the same thing.

You don’t vote for independence, change the flags, and expect everything else to carry on as if nothing has changed. Becoming an independent nation is hard work and will take several years. In the meantime, Catalonia’s economy and her people will limp along. However they vote, I hope they understand that.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

Ya’ know being outside the EU would not be a bad thing,…short term yes a problem having to make all new trading partners, but in the year or less it is a much better deal to be outside the EU, and its restrictions.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[OldBillParticipant]

743 roadmaster wrote:

short term yes a problem having to make all new trading partners, but in the year or less it is a much better deal to be outside the EU, and its restrictions.

If you think setting up a currency that won’t be worthless and signing trade deals will only take a “year or less”, you’ve got a lot of reading to do. Start by looking into Kosovo.

Just negotiating how much of Spain’s an independent Catalonia must take responsibility for will take well over a year. And no one will touch or trust any currency or bonds issued by Catalonia until that “little” issue is straightened out.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

This is interesting https://cointelegraph.com/news/julian-assange-supports-bitcoin-as-ways-to-free-catalonia-from-spains-dictate

“Julian Assange Supports Bitcoin As Ways to Free Catalonia From Spain’s Dictate”

The EU and Spain are not going to devalue the current currency just to spite Catalonia.
Like many other small countries adopting another countries currency is the easy out. If it really wants to spite the EU and Spain take on the US dollar. Or to spite Spain the pound sterling and set up trade with England.
All of which is still waiting on the vote. I am sure people in the position of power are on top of this with plans in advance of the vote.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[Anonymous 3]

743 roadmaster wrote:

Julian Assange Supports Bitcoin As Ways to Free Catalonia From Spain’s Dictate”

Bitcoin still needs internet connection, and that is to be negotiated and paid for in real physical currency. That’s a tricky stuff, they are still exposed to outside pressure. Although if they have their internet and bitcoins then it’s a great tool of independence.

[OldBillParticipant]

743 roadmaster wrote:

“Julian Assange Supports Bitcoin As Ways to Free Catalonia From Spain’s Dictate”

Spain isn’t going to accept bitcoins for electricity.

The EU and Spain are not going to devalue the current currency just to spite Catalonia.

They wouldn’t devalue the euro. They’d simply discount any euros which pass through Catalonia’s hands. It’s done all the time. In effect, Catalonia would be paying a premium to use the euro.

Like many other small countries adopting another countries currency is the easy out.

You’ve no real understanding of how this works, do you?

It’s an easy out only if the other country allows it. Liberia uses the US dollar only because Liberia’s economy is so minuscule that nothing which happens there can effect the dollar’s value. The larger the economy, however, the better chance that events in that economy could adversely the currency adopted from another nation and the less likely a nation will allow it’s currency to adopted.

Nations control their economies by controlling their money supplies. Basically, you control the amount of money in circulation and how fast that money it can move. The amount of money is managed by either adding or withdrawing it from the economy. The speed at which money moves about is then controlled by things like lending rates, capitalization limits, sureties, and collateral requirements.

If you allow another country to use your currency, you no longer fully control the amount of currency in circulation or how fast that money moves around. In the case of the US and Liberia, the amount of dollars beyond US control in Liberia is tiny and thus does not matter. Catalonia, however, is too big to be that small.

No nation is going to allow Catalonia to adopt it’s currency without first negotiating financial treaties which would grant control over things like Catalonian interest rates, collateral requirements, and the like to that nation. What’s more, Catalonia isn’t going to secede from Madrid’s economic control only to sign away the same level of control to the US, UK, or other nation in return for use of their currency.

Or to spite Spain the pound sterling and set up trade with England.

You don’t order up trade agreements like a cup of coffee, especially when the other nations involved are already bound by various WTO treaties.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

Hot damned it is the 1970’s and I am knee high to a grasshopper. Just when you think the 70’s through process is done and over a revival. Thank you oldbill for a run down memory lane.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[AttonParticipant]

OldBill wrote:

Atton wrote:

Independence honestly sounds entirely reasonable given the nature of things in Spain.

Independence may very well be reasonable, but independence is not going to come with automatic membership in all the various organizations and other treaties Spain currently enjoys. An independent nation has borders and responsibilities, borders with and responsibilities to other nations. Just what can and cannot cross those borders will have to be negotiated.

Spain, for example, isn’t going to send electricity produced in Spain to Catalonia as if nothing has happened. Ditto water. If the reservoir is in Spain, it won’t be supplying taps in Catalonia without some agreement in place. Roads and rails will be closed too. Flights originating in Catalonia will not be granted landing privileges in other nations until Catalonia becomes a signatory to a myriad of international agreements on air travel and security. Goods produced in Catalonia aren’t going to cross into Spain or France without negotiated agreements either.

Currency will be a huge problem. The EU isn’t going to let an independent Catalan use the euro without several complicated financial agreements in place, agreements that will take time to negotiate. In the meantime, any euros passing through Catalonia banks will heavily discounted by banks in all nations.

The EU flatly told Scotland all of this during the referendum there and Catalonia will be told the same thing.

You don’t vote for independence, change the flags, and expect everything else to carry on as if nothing has changed. Becoming an independent nation is hard work and will take several years. In the meantime, Catalonia’s economy and her people will limp along. However they vote, I hope they understand that.

Sounds Catalonia needs an sympathetic state sponsor. To accelerate and ease the process on their people.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[Author]

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