Better Late, Than Never

[Jack HarperParticipant 2863]

Hey all,
Looking the other day at threads I’d started I realized I never posted an introduction.

So here is my story. At least relative to the Red Pill and becoming MGTOW.

When I entered the teen years I was a very awkward teenager. In middle school and high school the pretty popular girls would take some delight and tell me how ugly I was, etc. And I heard this from some of the guys too, to be fair. But after hearing this for years I kind of resigned myself to being alone in high school and hoped things would get better later. I’m already an introverted/shy type but I shut myself off almost completely. Now later down the line a handful of girls told me they actually had crushes on me senior year of high school but I never noticed. That’s how shut off I was; just wanted to get it over with.

Since I had no dating experience really in high school days before going away to university one night at dinner my mom explained that I was going to go off without understanding women and they’d eat me alive. So she explained women and their nature in no uncertain terms. Said they think in ways and on levels men simply cannot understand and told me a lot about how they operate. Very red pill. My dad laughed and said warning me wouldn’t help; I’d have to experience it. They were both right of course.

In college a cute Asian girl took an interest in me. She was my first and we were together most of college. Senior year it came out that she had been cheating on me. First I found out about a guy she had met on a summer trip she had been with. But that was just the beginning of the rabbit hole. There had been others. Her previous boyfriend, a guy I thought was a friend of mine, she tried with my best friend (think sharon stone basic instict) and he actually turned her down (she confirmed this later), and there were others. Who knows how many really; but the icing on the cake is senior year when she was 22 she had also started f~~~ing a 13 year old boy. Some friends caught her. Pretty devastating to my ego. We broke up and I moved out; but she carried on with these other guys and me. She would show up from time to time at my apartment and we’d have ex-sex. Hate f~~~ing I guess. I was very aggressive because I was so angry. I’d f~~~ her and tell her to get out. and feel really dirty. but she told me she actually loved it; it was the best sex she ever had she said. It was really a hard time and messed with my mind.

Shortly before graduating I had secured a good job at a big company, as a graduation gift my family got me a trip to spend a summer touring Europe before starting my first job. Things were finally looking up. One night a couple of months before graduating I was going to my apartment late after studying. She showed up crying and told me she was pregnant. What were we going to do? I had always worn a condom with her. So I laughed in her face. I told her something like; “Get an abortion. Or have the kid. If it’s mine I’ll do what I’m obligated to do; but make no mistake, I will NEVER marry you if that’s what you’re looking for. And I will insist on a paternity test.” She lost it and cried and cried and I went into my apartment and shut the door and went to sleep. She got an abortion. She said, who knows if it was real.

So after that I graduated, had my summer trip and had a blast. Came back and started my corporate job. Worked a lot of hours. I was very lonely. Some co-workers introduced me to online dating and I met a girl. We started dating and in time I married her. I thought she was really supportive and a good person. Different from my ex. I guess a red flag should have been she did admit to cheating on a previous boyfriend, but said she was young and she knew it was wrong and felt really bad and had matured. Once a cheater always a cheater. As I said elsewhere she was supportive through the death of my beloved grandfather and when I went through my first lay off. I thought she was great. She was a little overweight and not as attractive as my previous gf or some of the girls I had dated or had been interested in me before. But I thought if I stuck with her and accepted that she’d be loyal. My best friend said he clearly knew what I was doing and logically it seemed to make sense. Anyway; after being together four years I proposed.

After 8 years of marriage and two sons I suspected something was going on. She wasn’t as supportive or sweet. I’ve always struggled with clinical depression which she knew about going into the relationship. I was up front. She promised she could handle it and would stick by me. She started talking more and more about a younger guy whose son also went to the same daycare as my son. We had spent time together at birthday parties for the kids and stuff. In November of 2011 I started suspecting something was going on. Oh also around October she had told me she was pregnant but wouldn’t keep the baby. I begged her not to abort but found out I had no control. No rights. In retrospect the baby probably wasn’t mine. Or at least a chance it wasn’t. We went to counseling and she blamed me for not being supportive of her decision. The s~~~ty counselor took her side. One night I woke up in the hospital. She said I tried to kill myself taking sleeping pills. I don’t remember that. I just remember wanting to sleep. They called it a suicide attempt; but I disagreed.

Anyway; February of 2012 I confronted her about the affair. She initially denied it but said she wanted a divorce. I asked why because I had given so much and sacrificed so much trying to make her happy. She said… wait for it… “I’m not happy.”

I needed to know about the affair. I got into her email and facebook and confirmed it was with this guy. As I said before her female friends knew about it and encouraged the affair. These were women I had helped over the years with various things from moving, tree trimming, watching kids, finding jobs. You name it. Also I started looking back. The unexplained missing times over the years. I started realizing that this had probably been going on for years. Cheating with various guys. Oh I should also mention she had lost a lot of weight in recent years and had actually become more attractive after 30 which is unusual for a woman. I never realized it until a friend sent me pictures of her when we were first dating versus shortly before she asked for the divorce. Her new younger Chad whom she married now was a better looking guy. Had a band. You’d think they’d grow out of that eventually. I did find it funny though I heard through the grape vine that he did indeed find out he wasn’t the only other guy, and was p~~~ed about it. but he still married her.

All of this plunged me deep into suicidal depression as it was the same story you’ve heard before. Had to move to a tiny one bedroom apartment from my very nice big house in a nice part of town. Got to see my sons every other weekend. I tried to carry on. Went through a lot of counseling etc. They called me a high suicide risk. A nice counselor I worked with for a year told me later she was really worried about me I was the most broken man she’d ever seen. She was the first to tell me that there was a very high suicide rate among divorced men. My dad spent a lot of time with me during this period. He’d come and stay with me for weeks at a time. His health was declining but I valued the time together. He had a similar experience with his first wife. He had a lot of wisdom. A great regret was not listening to him on a lot of stuff when I was younger. For example he had advised me not to marry my ex-wife. He had a bad feeling about her. But I listened. He was concerned about my turn deeper into depression. I wasn’t taking care of myself. I barely made it to work. I sank deeper into despair. He tried to talk me into coming home. Starting over. Get away from this city I had lived in; start fresh. Everything here reminded me of my ex and what I lost. I had very, very few friends that stuck with me. Even female co-workers I had first become friends with chose my ex-wife over me to stay friends with. How it goes.

As the depression worsened I lost my job. It was a bad time. My parents came and got me. Helped me start over. I’m back in school. Restarting my life at middle-age. Preparing to take over the family business. I see my boys as much as I can though I’m 3 hours away now. My dad passed on my birthday 2015. Before he did he said he didn’t want me to let this drag me back down into despair. Keep going. Told me I had given so much to my ex, now it was time to start living for me. Get to know me again. He left me money to help restart my life. Not a fortune but enough to help me get back into school and keep up with child support while working just enough to keep going. He said he hoped one day I’d get to the place I would have been had I never met that bitch. lol. And he told me I have to play nice for now for the good of my sons but when my youngest is 18 cut her off. Said “She’s a liar and a cheater. That’s all she is; that’s all she’ll ever be and you don’t need someone like that in your life; nobody does.” Warned me that she will always try to keep some claws in me. Hold on to a degree.

So my ex for her part; never missed a beat. She faced no hardship from the divorce. She’s still in the same house with her new husband. They have a new daughter who is two and between them now have five kids. She presents always how great her life is.

For me; I’m coming to terms. I’ve realized it will be a simple life and not the life I dreamed of when I was younger. The loving wife, kids, the american dream. A simple life, but still a good life. Just 8 more years of child support. And I’m done. I haven’t really tried to date. Part of it was coming to terms with the fact that it was all bulls~~~. Partly realizing, even before I had heard the term, that I was the ‘beta’. the reliable good guy that women don’t really want. And partly I was just so tired. Dealing with women was just so exhausting I wanted a break. I haven’t been entirely monk these four years. A couple of encounters. But I think in time I will be monk.

Browsing the internet and YouTube I started coming across red pill stuff. I think actually the first stuff I found on YouTube was a Tom Leykis video. From there found Sandman, Starsusk, Barbarossa, etc. Then eventually found my way here. Like I’ve said before it was such a relief to find other like minded men and know I wasn’t alone. So those are the highlights of my red pill journey.

[DocParticipant]

Jack that’s a very moving story right there.
Sadly it’s all too typical but that is not meant to invalidate your pain and suffering which I know is very very real. My mind is often my enemy and after my divorce I struggled. But my suffering appears to be less than yours.

I know how galling it can be to see your ex walk away unscathed – keeping the house etc while you were left with nothing. Sadly that is also all too typical.

Stay strong. You are home.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[ghostParticipant]

Thanks for sharing, Jack. You are tough, no question.

[Jack HarperParticipant 2863]

Thanks guys. I should also say during my divorce when I described stuff I’d gone through a friend of mine who had a narcissistic mother told me it sounded like NPD. I researched it and a lot of her behaviors match up. She really gaslit the hell out of me. And my dad was convinced until he died that she tried to poison or kill me somehow. He said it was too drastic of a change in my appearance and overall health after moving out of the house for it to be a coincidence he thought.

[HowardParticipant 164]

After my divorce a lot of people told me my ex wife had NPD. I got the book “When Evil Wears a Pretty Face.” Its a book on female narcissism. I must’ve read that book in a day. I thought the author was writing about my marriage.

And Welcome, brother.

[Anonymous 14]

Very well written Jack, and yet another reminder to me that I made the right decisions in life by never getting married. What a f~~~ing nightmare that all was. If there is one thing I have learned about women is they all want the same thing, and that thing is MORE. What they want more of varies from woman to woman and can change throughout the course of their lives, but the MORE part seems to be universal, no wonder they are catered to by a Corporate driven society…Their very nature is good for business. One of my friends wifeys just left him after 15 years of marriage due to him “Not making enough money considering the Ivy League school he graduated from”. F~~~ing bitch, I am sure she was cheating on him for several years leading up to the end as well. Marriage is a f~~~ing joke, zero reason for men to get into it.

I was always the confident rebel type, from a very young age I decided everyone else’s opinion was secondary to mine. This ranged from my own father, government, all the way down to school teachers and peers. I just never really gave a f~~~, well, at least I for sure gave less f~~~s than others did. I think this helped out a lot in many ways, so I have not been through much of what many men have had to endure. Hearing horror stories like yours is oddly somewhat comforting in the way that they reaffirm for me the choices I have made as well as the recommendations I give to others.

Life is just so much easier when you do what works for you and protect your interests at every turn, it is just that simple. This doesn’t mean you need to be insensitive or a prick, it just means look out for #1 before #’s 2- 7.5 billion.

[RhinoParticipant 3477]

Thanks for sharing your story. Even when you dig the deepest pit and fall into it and are surrounded by darkness there is always a way to climb back up to the top. Things will only get better for you and you have like minded brothers here to help you with any questions you may have. Your story is all to common these days but it is a reminder that you are strong and things will improve.

[MonkParticipant 16985]

Jack Harper wrote:

I should also say during my divorce when I described stuff I’d gone through a friend of mine who had a narcissistic mother told me it sounded like NPD.

They are ALL like that. For them, it’s normal. It’s just a question of degree.

And my dad was convinced until he died that she tried to poison or kill me somehow.

From your description, I would guess that your father was right.

[MonkParticipant 16985]

Anonymous wrote:

If there is one thing I have learned about women is they all want the same thing, and that thing is MORE. […] Their very nature is good for business.

Good for WAR too.

Wars are about control of resources. And which group invariably wants more of everything?

Right.

The relationship between wimmin and war bears closer analysis.

During the 19th century, women loved war. No risk to them.

During the First World War, they were keen to start with (white feather anyone?), but when the first bombing of cities occurred, they began to lose their enthusiasm.

Just before the Second World War, when it became apparent that mass bombing of cities was inevitable, they really lost their enthusiasm.

During the Cold War, when nuclear annihilation became certain, they didn’t like it at all.

[Chase PesosParticipant 2136]

Damn brother, just damn. Thank you for sharing such intimate and personal thoughts.

You guys are starting to tear me up. You’re one of the strongest men I’ve encountered for being able to pull through these tribulations.

Welcome and I hope you find all the comfort you need with your new band of brothers.

Chase a check, never chase a chick...

[OneLaneOnlyPlsParticipant 1747]

Jack Harper wrote:

Hey all,
Looking the other day at threads I’d started I realized I never posted an introduction.

Jack…

I think at one point prior, I asked you to elaborate on your story. I am glad I read this today.

You are a strong individual for making it thru all that. I’m sorry it happened to you, but if she was any less evil perhaps you would not have found this place soon enough.

In 8 more years you will be truly free of that evil woman. She does not deserve the title of being one.

Just know that your words here, and in other threads, will help men avoid the nightmare you went thru. Each day men join this site and read stories like yours, and your words WILL strike a chord with them.

[Manspread MansplainerParticipant 4222]

Jack Harper wrote:

I needed to know about the affair. I got into her email and facebook and confirmed it was with this guy. As I said before her female friends knew about it and encouraged the affair. These were women I had helped over the years with various things from moving, tree trimming, watching kids, finding jobs. You name it.

Ah yes, the hive protects their own and encourages the slut to cheat. Had a similar experience there. I helped her c~~~ friends move, drove them around (for free) all the while they knew about the cheating.

The only women who broke the news to me were fly’s of the hive who were simply jealous so wanted to cause drama.

AWALT!

I had depression because I blamed myself for every break-up.
MGTOW opened my eyes – the problem isn’t you.
It’s them.

Another good man off the plantation.
Can’t wait until the c~~~s dry up, lesbians kill each other and the hive implodes.

If women ran the world = It would become the shithole you are seeing.

[AttonParticipant]

God damn that is brutal.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[Wildwalker57Participant 107]

Powerful story, Jack.
I sat here staring at the paint on my wall for several minutes here before writing anything more. I have people in my life who say they are ‘survivors’, but that always gets my hackles up when I hear it. I’ve suffered too, but I have this burn in me. It’s like a demand deep down. I am not sure if it is my stored up pain, or it is just my life (soul) raging to be lived, or it is an insistence inside against being anyone’s victim no matter how poorly I’ve been treated? I may not have walked your shoes, not even close, but I can feel your pain through your written word. You articulate your pain so well in fact, it actuated my burn inside. I got more work to do tonight. Thank you for sharing. I’ll sleep when I’m dead. But, for you, I want for you to thrive, Jack. Whatever that word means to you, I want that for you. Thrive!

"It's a trap!" Admiral Ackbar.

[MaddladParticipant 765]

Yeah, when mine left me all our mutual friends that were female were all encouraging her when she was already f~~~ing the next bloke. No thought for the poor old male that had his heart ripped into a million pieces by the c~~~…

[onmywayParticipant 502]

Wow. You’re a strong, strong man. You survived something I probably never would have. Keep going brother, and thank you for sharing this with younger and less experienced men like me. It’s a great reminder to stay the F~~~ away from marriage.

Wishing you all the best.

[GoodKid44Participant 1524]

F~~~ bro, thank your for sharing that. Women love to prey on our inability to control our hormones. They know we just want to f~~~ and use that this against us. Those women played you like an xbox. They have zero empathy for the destruction they leave in their wake. You’re alive though and you made it through. You found Mgtow too.

Your dad seems like a swell guy who tried to at least warn you. My father never even tried. I don’t think he had the capacity or even knows anything about women himself. I resented him for that but as time passes and he gets older I realize that I need to stop being so critical of him. I may not like how he carries himself but in the end I forgive him. It doesn’t matter how angry I get at him for not helping me out when I needed it. Time def heals.
Some of my friends never even had a Dad. Hilarious how the grass is always greener on the other side.

Edit: and the part about her friends all cheering her on. Just brutal. F~~~ing c~~~s. All up in each others business like hen pecked idiots. This will never end until men get to take back the authority in the household, which will never happen so long as women have rights.

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