"Avoidant personality disorder" Is it really a disorder ?

[FragmentedParticipant 2758]

I made the argument to a psychologist last year that it might be part of our evolution, or possibly peoples minds adapting to the current state of affairs. The moral and ethical fabric of society has been shredded. Also i feel the world is overpopulated. We’ve seen studies done with mice, where the males withdraw due to overpopulation. We may see this mimicked in the human population in Japan, and to a smaller extent in other countries.

There are many types of real disorders, but i specifically call this one into question. The justifications for not having relationships, or avoiding people in general, are very legitimate.

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[Anonymous 12]

How long can you really keep trying to achieve something when you don’t get anywhere or worse still, see that the game itself is rigged?

Eventually you give up or find other interests and ways of succeeding. That is natural in my opinion.

[Handsome VicParticipant 1613]

Reading about the symptoms, I’d believe this is indeed a disorder affecting men and women who crave approval and intimacy but are overly anxious and fearful that they will not (or are unworthy to) receive it.

I don’t see a connection to MGTOW, which is a rational choice for men.

I'm going my own way. Maybe I'll see you there.

[Anonymous 42]

First of all ask yourself, am “I” out of order, or is “society” out of order?

The answers depend on the narrative so why not change the narrative to see if the question fits?

Like a blowtorch, I’m good at untangling webs of deception that would have one questioning their own sanity!

Their narrative is getting 1960s’ OLD!

[FragmentedParticipant 2758]

Handsome Vic wrote:

Reading about the symptoms, I’d believe this is indeed a disorder affecting men and women who crave approval and intimacy but are overly anxious and fearful that they will not (or are unworthy to) receive it.

I don’t see a connection to MGTOW, which is a rational choice for men.

This isn’t directly connected to MGTOW … however, i will say boys/men are conditioned from a very young age, to believe they’re unworthy, and demonized socially, sexually, and psychologically. We’re taught to be insecure through constant shaming language. In other words, if you tell a young man that he has toxic masculinity, and call him a future rapist … he’s probably going to become anxious and uncomfortable in social situations, especially around the opposite sex.

MGTOW and AVPD obviously aren’t the same thing, but i was avoidant before i discovered MGTOW. Looking back, i believe it was my way of adapting, being shamed as a teenager, mostly by girls, for having acne, and being too skinny, i became very anxious and afraid around the opposite sex, fearing the shaming language in my teens. That’s why i’m questioning if it’s a disorder, because in my case, it was perfectly logical to be avoidant.

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[GrumpyParticipant]

**CLICK**

OH.
I think I understand the premise of your question now.

Q. Is APD really a disorder or is it the result of social programming/conditioning?

Would that be a reasonable assumption?

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[FragmentedParticipant 2758]

Grumpy wrote:

**CLICK**

OH.
I think I understand the premise of your question now.

Q. Is APD really a disorder or is it the result of social programming/conditioning?

Would that be a reasonable assumption?

I think that’s a reasonable assumption. I didn’t make that as clear as i should have in my original post, and generalized a bit too much.

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[GrumpyParticipant]

Fragmented wrote:

I think that’s a reasonable assumption. I didn’t make that as clear as i should have in my original post, and generalized a bit too much.

It’s all good,
Sometimes I’m not as think as I bright I am….

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[BritGHOWParticipant 2566]

If there’s one thing we’ve learned over the last 5 years, between heforshe, listenandbelieve and metoo, it’s that any association with women, whatever that association may be, business, professional, personal, is inherently dangerous.

Why? because a week, a month, a year, three decades after the event she can decide that she was uncomfortable, felt threatened, was assaulted, was raped, and your b~~~~ are on the chopping block.

You will be exposed, your name will be on every news outlet, you will be tried and convicted in the court of public opinion long before you ever step foot in a court of law assuming that ever happens, you will likely lose your job and your career and end up exhausting what’s left of your assets in a vain effort to clear your name.

Avoidance of such is not a disorder, it is the only logical response to ensure survival.

[DocParticipant]

If you look at all the personality disorders they are all down to faulty programming. In other words learned behaviour or conditioning.

Sometimes a person has been abused other times they have not. Just depends on many factors.

But Pd is a software problem unlike a psychosis which is a hardware problem.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[CarnageParticipant 22113]

Avoidant personality desorder?

I call it “smart people”

To those following me, be careful, I just farted. Men those beans are killers.

[DocParticipant]

Carnage wrote:

Avoidant personality desorder?

I call it “smart people”

Smart people know what to avoid. Correct.

People with avoidant PD have issues with everyday situations most of us handle with ease.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22508]

Damn straight. Its unhealty to be considered normal in a sick society. Its also immoral to be considered good in a depraved/warped/perverted sociey.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22508]

Doc wrote:

Carnage wrote:

Avoidant personality desorder?

I call it “smart people”

Smart people know what to avoid. Correct.

People with avoidant PD have issues with everyday situations most of us handle with ease.

Someone like the character Monk could be someone who could have this problem. Otherwise freedom of association is hardly a disorder, its everyones personal choice.

The implication is negatve and towards men. When have we ever seen this psycho garbage aimed at women in a negative way to shame them or make it appear they are wrong to avoid men? Never, thats when.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[DocParticipant]

Well there is hope for us men.
Women are More often diagnosed as having Pd than men.

But the whole diagnostic process is flawed anyway.

If you look at the DSM you’ll see what I mean.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[DocParticipant]

Problem is with the entire term ‘Personality Disorder’ because it gives the immediate impression that a person has a disordered personality which is not true.

It’s an out dated term that has never been renamed because nobody is in agreeemnt as to what to call it.

Not only that there are so many symptoms a person can show for the many different PDs it becomes completely meaningless.

But a person with so called avoidant Pd doesn’t just avoid things in a healthy manner. They avoid things to the extent where it’s actually a detriment to their life.

An example being that they avoid people to the extent where they will starve themselves instead of go to the store. Admittedly that is their right to do so.
A cutoff point comes when a person puts themselves or others in harms way. Should mental health services step in then? I don’t know but if people are at risk the public expect something to happen.

If a person is only putting themselves in harms way then we could argue that it’s their choice. But some people don’t have what called capacity to are that decision.

Sometimes the mental health problem robs them of capacity to make that decision.

Back to PD – it’s a minefeld. That’s all I can say.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[FragmentedParticipant 2758]

Doc wrote:

But a person with so called avoidant Pd doesn’t just avoid things in a healthy manner. They avoid things to the extent where it’s actually a detriment to their life.

An example being that they avoid people to the extent where they will starve themselves instead of go to the store.

My social anxiety got close to being that bad several times. The problem is like you stated with PD’s, they’re mostly learned behaviors due to life events or psychological conditioning/programming, and it’s an outdated term i agree.

When mine got nearly that bad, the Dr. i was seeing at the time thought perhaps it was something other then AVPD because none of the traditional methods such CBT were working. It was suggested i may have STPD, and was placed on medication.

I agree it’s a minefield, and i just go to a family Dr. to get my medication now, because i found the mental health field to be a cluster f~~~.

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[Anonymous 3]

I think, stop talking to a psycho, in every case except when you know HE is Red-pill or Mgtow. Those people, who have not been to the hell and back, cannot even imagine what amount of sadness,losses, treason, and drama we have been through, instead of that fairy-tale “happy marriage” that society bulls~~~s into young men’s heads.

[DocParticipant]

Fragmented wrote:

Doc wrote:

But a person with so called avoidant Pd doesn’t just avoid things in a healthy manner. They avoid things to the extent where it’s actually a detriment to their life.

An example being that they avoid people to the extent where they will starve themselves instead of go to the store.

My social anxiety got close to being that bad several times. The problem is like you stated with PD’s, they’re mostly learned behaviors due to life events or psychological conditioning/programming, and it’s an outdated term i agree.

When mine got nearly that bad, the Dr. i was seeing at the time thought perhaps it was something other then AVPD because none of the traditional methods such CBT were working. It was suggested i may have STPD, and was placed on medication.

I agree it’s a minefield, and i just go to a family Dr. to get my medication now, because i found the mental health field to be a cluster f~~~.

Yes the mental health field is a proper cluster f~~~.

I belong to a school of thought that prefers to ditch diagnostic labels and simply deal with the problematic symptoms.
That makes it far easier to see what you are dealing g with because you are not trying to fit people into boxes and look for other symptoms you would or should expect to find if you were seeking an actual diagnosis instead of just dealing with the problematic symptom.

Thing is – a lot of patients like a label or diagnosis because it validates them in their eyes plus makes them feel that there is a reason for the problem. If that makes sense.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[DocParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

I think, stop talking to a psycho, in every case except when you know HE is Red-pill or Mgtow. Those people, who have not been to the hell and back, cannot even imagine what amount of sadness,losses, treason, and drama we have been through, instead of that fairy-tale “happy marriage” that society bulls~~~s into young men’s heads.

Trust me Darth. I have been to hell and back in the 46 Years I have lived in this wretched earth.
I studied Psychology to Doctorate level because I wanted to understand why the f~~~ people are like they are.

My path has been far from easy. I am 100% red pill.
Once I was deluded and believe the fairytale but I was stupid and naive.

Now I watch out for the few I give a f~~~ about in his world.
I don’t go about dispensing advice to many and actually few most people are indeserving.
A good Psychologist will be the first to admit they don’t know it all. And cautious with sharing what they do know because of fear of inadvertently harming others.

We tread gently. Not through fear but because we know the damage life can do and for many here on MGTOW what life has actually done to us.

I totally understand why many hate us Psychologists but we aren’t all bastards.

Not saying that you think we are however. I can sense from the way some talk about Psycholigists we aren’t popular with some. But that’s ok with me.

I ain’t thin skinned.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[Author]

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