Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Anyone got any good books on "useful" morality
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Ever5 2 years, 4 months ago.
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Hey guys. I watched some video the other day.
Turns out, I had bought a copy of Beyond Good and Evil before I even went MGTOW. It’s been sitting on my bed forever but I never read it. So I’m reading that now. And yeah, it’s making me question everything.
So I realize part of what is holding me back is my morality. I often have a conflict of morality, trying to do good but questioning what is “good”, what is the right way to perceive people and reality. Now I realize that morality is not universal and there are different ways of perceiving what is good and evil. So that’s my next quest.
So I’ve got the Beyond Good and Evil. Reading that currently. Deep read but it’s causing my to question my own held beliefs, so that’s good.
I also have a copy of Atlas Shrugged. I heard that’s a good one to read a long time ago. It’s another book I picked up, think the same time I got Beyond Good and Evil but still haven’t read it. But lately been getting back into reading again so I’m going to read it and see if it can help me see the world in a better way.
Basically trying to get my morality in tune to living a good life that’s in tune with reality. Where I’m not fighting against what is and more working with what is.
Anyone know any good books?
Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.
I agree on the Bible, however, the English translation I have found is wrong, at least in our modern speak.
Take forgiveness for example. There’s only one verse by Jesus where forgiveness is used the way we “believe” it’s to be interpretted and that’s the verse that went something like “Judge and you shall be judged, Forgive and you shall be forgiven”, it was something like that.
In all the other uses, by Jesus, forgive meant something very very different. It means to leave behind, “let them die” in some situations. To forgive never meant to let someone who harmed you back into your life. It means to forget about them and walk off, leaving them behind.
Studying the Greek, the bible is a much much different book than the english translation using our current understanding of English.
I agree that the Bible is a good book, but it has to be translated from the Greek and Hebrew, to get a real clue of what it is saying. That being said. It’s a lot of hard work. So looking for other options.
Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.
Read ‘the God Delusion’
best book I ever read -and I’ve read the entire bible
"Fish can’t climb trees and women can’t be trusted." -Buck Fitches
I’m looking for books on morality. I can only assume that ‘the God Delusion’ is a book on atheism, which is in itself, just another religion.
Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.
I listen to this guy every day. STARTS AT 3:00
His philosophy is very aligned with MGTOW, i.e. don’t do things to make others happy, do things that make yourself happy, don’t bother with what other people want you to do, you have all you need right now to be happy, don’t need anything or anyone else, etc etc.
So I realize part of what is holding me back is my morality. I often have a conflict of morality, trying to do good but questioning what is “good”, what is the right way to perceive people and reality. Now I realize that morality is not universal and there are different ways of perceiving what is good and evil. So that’s my next quest.
You emphasize “perception” here and ask “what is the right way to perceive”. And in a way, “perception” is everything. After all, David Copperfield made a career out of perception and illusion. So did a lot of other “personalities”.
Perception / outward personality . . . . .vs . . . . inner character.
Like relative truth . . . . . vs . . . . . absolute truth.Perception pertains to how people want to be seen.
And reality pertains to how things actually ARE.Instead of looking for how you should perceive things (relative truth), consider letting their character reveal itself (absolute truth) and help guide you. Your personal perception becomes less of a factor.
—
One of the fundamentals of MGTOW is about never looking to others for social cues, and establishing your own core set of values. To a certain extent, YOU get to decide what is “good”, right & wrong, and you can insist on living by those rules and values which you established for yourself.
There are also absolute truths such as the laws of nature, a sense of justice. Good & evil and right & wrong are very clear when governed (or guided) by absolute truth. Even animals are born with this.
Who is right/wrong in this situation?
Relative truth is what you see all around you in “society” and even in the current “legal system”. It’s not called a “justice system” for a reason. And in a legal system, just because something is “legal” – doesn’t make it right. Right??
So RPB’s recommendation of reading the Bible is really quite sensible. The book of Genesis has one of the best examples of this within the story of Adam and Eve.
I recommend the Bible.
I’m not even a religious man, myself. But we certainly see “god” everyday within the absolute laws of nature. Like water flowing downhill.
There is a place in Canada called “Magnetic Hill” which I visited when I was a child. You drive your car to the bottom of the hill, leave it in neutral, and the car appears to rolls backwards uphill!! When you’re in the car, you would SWEAR the car is rolling uphill. Even the water in the ditch appears to flow uphill. It’s an optical illusion.
That’s the power of “perception” – but it’s not the way things really are.
—
Absolute Truth v.s Relative Truth.
The Garden of Eden is a story of the battle of Absolute Truth vs. Relative Truth, and the danger of what happens by placing the Relative Truth higher in importance than the Absolute Truth. It is a story about humankind’s ability to bend the truth to over-ride reality — often with dire consequences.
There was only one rule in the Garden: ” DON’T EAT FROM THAT TREE!” There was only one truth that Adam and Eve had to follow. . . it gets interesting, because Eve was deceived but she was not particularly lied to. In fact, the serpent’s assertions are perfectly valid, although very craftily worded:
“you will not surely die”.
And then Eve’s female rationalizing hamster wheel starts churning, mired in Relative Truth.
“When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.”
Because it was good for food, pleasing to look at, and desirable for gaining wisdom . . . .Eve rationalized to herself why the Relative Truth which she wished for ought to be able to over-ride the Absolute Truth that existed.
( SIDE NOTE: Could placing the Relative Truth humans create in their brains over the Absolute Truth that exists in reality be the “original sin?” )
Also to note here in the Garden story is the difference between men and women, and something we also often speak of in the Manosphere: Adam, the mangina, simply went along with her.
Timothy 2:12-14 RSV: “I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.”
Adam was not deceived.
He sinned willingly.Eve deceived herself with her female driven hamster-wheel of relative-truth laden brain, but Adam was not deceived at all. He was standing right there and was not deceived; Eve gave it to him, and he was still without sin at this point. But like a mangina eager to please, he said, “sure thing, Toots!” and swallowed ‘er down whole.
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you”, “You must not eat of it” . . . (Man’s Curse) . . . hence the expulsion from Paradise.
It’s pretty clear.
Between Adam and Eve, God expects a different level of cognition. God expected Adam to know better than Eve, because Adam has the capability to know better.
Of all of the things that were in the world during the Garden, the only thing not directly from God — is Eve. She was created from Adam, who was created in God’s image. Adam is copy of God, and Eve is a copy of Adam. Adam is “one step closer” to God & Absolute Truth than Eve is.
And, when regarding how male and female brains operate in order to ascertain “TRUTH” this holds true – men and women “find the truth” in different ways.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.KM hit one out of the ballpark with this post and that alone makes him quite a man of integrity in my book!! and that gentlemen is my true opinion! I always speak my mind, I never try to please the gallery at the expense of my beliefs!! and that’s that!
( SIDE NOTE: Could placing the Relative Truth humans create in their brains over the Absolute Truth that exists in reality be the “original sin?” )
There are absolute truths such as the laws of nature, a sense of justice. Good & evil and right & wrong are very clear when governed (or guided) by absolute truth. Even animals are born with this.
Who is right/wrong in this situation?Relative truth is what you see all around you in “society” and even in the current “legal system”. It’s not called a “justice system” for a reason. And in a legal system, just because something is “legal” – doesn’t make it right. Right??
The Garden of Eden is a story of the battle of Absolute Truth vs. Relative Truth, and the danger of what happens by placing the Relative Truth higher in importance than the Absolute Truth. It is a story about humankind’s ability to bend the truth to over-ride reality — often with dire consequences.
Between Adam and Eve, God expects a different level of cognition. God expected Adam to know better than Eve, because Adam has the capability to know better.
Of all of the things that were in the world during the Garden, the only thing not directly from God — is Eve. She was created from Adam, who was created in God’s image. Adam is copy of God, and Eve is a copy of Adam. Adam is “one step closer” to God & Absolute Truth than Eve is.
And, when regarding how male and female brains operate in order to ascertain “TRUTH” this holds true – men and women “find the truth” in different ways.You must own a better Crystal ball than IWhen Adam sat in the Garden of Eden God appeared and said to Adam
‘If you give me your right arm and your left leg I will give you something that will fulfil your wildest dreams and every desire’.Adam thought for a while and said to God ‘it sounds like a good offer My Lord but what can I get for a rib?’
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
Great stuff guys.
What got me thinking is this idea of slave morality and master reality. The original video I put up. I was raised to be that of slave morality. And I’ve worked on myself a lot, yet some values and ideas I am still stuck with. Reading this Beyond Good and Evil book, I’m starting to question what I always held to be true.
BuckFitches – You recommended the book “The God Delusion”, I noticed my bias just automatically assumed, ooo this is a book about religion and nothing to do with morality, or a useful way of living life. I haven’t read it though I’ve listened to a lot of Richard Dawkins interviews, most of which I didn’t find particularly useful other than someone who wants to justify that there is no god. Which God or No God, I’m merely looking for ways to interpret reality, or question my strongly held beliefs, when it comes to right and wrong.
Does this book help with that. Or is it merely a book trying to disprove God and thus promote it’s on religious bias, that of atheism.
Basically, I’m looking for philosophies that will be useful for living a good life. Absolute truth would be useful but I don’t think it can be obtained through mortal eyes without intervention. Our pre-conceived perceptions of reality are so strong, it’s a like a fish swimming in water, it doesn’t know the water because the water is all it has ever known.
Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.
Look up Kohlberg’s 6 levels of moral development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development
Also.
The God Shaped Brain and The God Shaped Heart by Dr. Timothy Jennings.
When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.
Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics.
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.htmlI specialized in ethics in college. If you read up on the three different schools of thought: virtue ethics, de-ontology, and consequentialism, you will be a long way further. I am a virtue ethicist, which emphasis the value of moral actions for the person doing the actions, similar to the MGTOW philosophy of doing what is right for you. De-ontology emphasizes doing what the rule says is right, whether that rule is edicted by God, reason, or your community. Consequentialism examines the practical impact of morality and asks the question, how is this action helpful or harmful in a practical sense?
Virtue ethics begins with the above Aristotle text as a starting point. I prefer Iris Murdoch, a modern british virtue ethics scholar, The Sovereignty of Good. Murdoch contrasts Kant vs Aristotle. Alisdair MacIntyre in After Virtue contrasts Nietzsche vs Aristotle.
Immanuel Kant’s Metaphysics of Morals is a seminole piece for de-ontology but is very heavy reading, so just read a summary online if it is too much. The main takeaway is that actions are considered right actions if they are done because it is the right thing to do, without regard for personal gain. Only do those things that could reasonably become a universal law for everyone else to also do, his “categorical imperative.”
"Once you’ve taken care of the basics, there’s very little in this world for which your life is worth deferring." -David Hansson. "It’s not when women are mean or nasty that anything is out of the ordinary. It’s when they are NICE to you that you have to be on high alert..." -Jackinov.
Our pre-conceived perceptions of reality are so strong, it’s a like a fish swimming in water, it doesn’t know the water because the water is all it has ever known.
A salmon also understands nothing about why it swims upstream in the greatest struggle of its life. But if it had the intellectual capacity to “go it’s own way” . . . it might say “F~~~ this. S~~~ isn’t worth it”.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I recommend the Bible.
I agree on the Bible,
I’ve posted the Richard Carrier YouTube video several times that clearly shows that Christianity (and the Christian Bible) are just man-made fabrications. Your ‘religion’ and your God are just a compilation of stories and beliefs from different pre-existing religions throughout the history of man.
Your ‘God’ is just one god in a long line of similar gods that all came before. And all those other gods are long dead.
How the f~~~ do you simply ignore the obvious, rather self evident fact that your god and your religion are just man made? What is it that you’re just not getting???
@autolite – “I” am not Christian. However, I am a “student” of religions. The Bible is a good book, if one sits down with a greek and hebrew dictionary and translates it for himself. It’s a good book, and there are many useful ideas related to morality that exist with in it, that have nothing to do with “religion”, the idea of creation and afterlife, that which cannot be known.
This is what I am talking about. We all do this. You presume or assume, that I am Christian simply because I said the Bible is a good book. Well I think the Rig Veda is a good book too. I think the Tao is a good book too. Does that make me Hindu or Zen?
Again, this is what I am talking about. We all have these preconceived notions about what is, we presume and assume many things without ever questioning it. The fish is swimming in the water but doesn’t know it.
My goal is to see the water for what the water is. Morality that is useful for living life. Slave Morality is not useful for me. I’m independent, I don’t ask people for help, and I take responsibility for my actions, so why is it that I “pity” these POS that can’t do the same… Because my morality is skewed. I’m living one way, yet judging people by standards that “hurt” me. Feeling sorry for assholes and losers. That’s what I’m trying to escape.
Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.
I suggest the writings of St. Augustine of Hippo. In particular his “On the Morales of the Manichaeans”.
You will notice that socialist/communist states often echo the same arguments as made by our friend Autolite. Now why is that? Simple They reserve to the authoritarian state the power to decide right and wrong what is moral or not. this is why atheists deny God with one breath but then exalt the majesty of the “state” with their next.
You see without God the State is free to define Good/Evil. when they decide a group is “evil” and decides to round them up for extermination they don’t want others pointing out the immorality of doing so as contrary to God’s law—thus their penchant for killing off God.
Frankly I’m surprised autolite hasn’t emigrated to that most perfect of atheist states North Korea. A shinning example of a Godless society. Hey man—I’ll buy you the ticket.
The Bible is a good book, if one sits down with a greek and hebrew dictionary and translates it for himself. It’s a good book, and there are many useful ideas related to morality that exist with in it, that have nothing to do with “religion”,
I will assume you that mean it’s a ‘good book’ if we ignore the parts about stoning to death rude children, burning to death your innocent daughter and drowning all of mankind (including infant children) as some sort of f~~~ed-up punishment for unspecified sins?
Other than that kinda s~~~, it’s really great for teaching morality is what you’re saying???
…..is a book on atheism, which is in itself, just another religion.
Lol, what a ridiculous claim, but I guess you are just parroting.
Ahh yes my number 2 hater Autolite, sorry Autolite your number 2, your buddy X11 is number 1,
You will notice that socialist/communist states often echo the same arguments as made by our friend Autolite.
And yet neither of you addressed the issue raised about Christianity being man-made. Why is that???
The bible is a poor example of morality. Possibly the most evil immoral book you could find. Lots examples
Some sick f~~~s wrote many parts of the bible, the only good hippy Jesus stuff was borrowed/stolen from other earlier cultures.
I don’t recommend anyo e read it looking for works on morality.
It quite disgusting.
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