An Apology for Faith by the Faithless

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Iam a Biological Determinist.

I acknowledge Newton’s Law: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Only what can happen, will happen. All that occurs is bound to, and no intervention is possible. Things that appear to intervene are simply extra variables in the unstoppable domino-drop of energy and matter occurring all around us.

We humans are also made of energy and matter. No part of us is non-material or existing outside of physical laws. We do not stand apart as free agents from Causality. Freewill is a delusion. It doesn’t seem this way, because our limited senses cannot accurately foresee what will unfold in front of us, yet our blindness to the inevitable doesn’t make it random, nor does it open the door to our choosing what will occur.
God’s Will is a One Way street I always say empathetically for the Faithful. Inshallah.

Our experience as humans is that of being compelled down a poorly lit corridor where we can make out features close to us, but a few feet ahead is totally black and unknowable. What’s headed toward us is as guaranteed as Mathematics to transpire but given our flippant perspective; we believe we can affect outcomes. The reality is that we’re just another cog in the machine; the cog doesn’t run the machine. We’re not riders of the horse, we’re conscious passengers.

I offer my condolences to people who haven’t yet grasped this philosophical bedrock. I say bedrock because this is it, rock bottom, there are no more secret objective pastures, this is the last one. These are inescapable facts about our reality. This is objectively and subjectively demonstrable. Our failure to emotionally or intellectually wrangle these truths doesnt mean they arent true.

Here is where Faith comes in.
Given that everything is inevitable, what is the logic in faith? Hope and Faith is rather meaningless when you consider that the future is inescapable. Notice I do not use the word Fate or Destiny or Preordained to describe the indifferent future state of matter. The structure of the cosmos to come, is an unplanned inevitability. The idea of it being planned is Anthropomorphic Delusion. As Hitchens would quote Laplace , “It works without that assumption.” Similarly, destiny is a silly romantic word like fate. Both are Fatalist rubbish. But I digress…

So what is the use of Faith? Well, it has a use! It comforts us from the horror of this dark corridor. It eases the tension of stumbling unavoidably into the unknown. Faith and Anthropomorphizing are adaptive traits we perfected over millions of years. I hesitate to call them reactions to fear, but more they are motor functions to keep pace with survival. There is no use wishing them away. We can expect to find these same traits in other conscious life off-world, given that they have something resembling a central nervous system and a few dull senses like touch and sight, they too will tally up their experience to unfolding beyond their control and seek to pacify that insanity with psychological coping mechanisms such as; assigning anthropomorphic traits to inanimate objects to familiarize and dull the indifference. After all, it’s comforting to believe that our Sun, racing (from our perspective) through the sky, is actually a benevolent superman who loves the meek and punishes the unkind. Faith holds our hand in the dark and is instinctive. Faith is the constant conscious cushion we adapted so that we can deal with survival distractions like saber tooth tigers and volcanic ash without pausing every five seconds to reflect on the overwhelming sense of doom and helplessness that existence invokes.

So Faith is pointless in the face of the inevitable, but we are hardly that ardently objective as to be able to stomach Causality without visceral reaction. So Faith is our blanket to weather the solar wind.

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22502]

No offense but this just leads to everything being pointless,and existing for no reason or purpose. So nothing really matters because there’s no point to any of it. There’s no point to morals or living a certain way. All morals are equal and subjective, no one can say murdering everyone is worse than helping others, in the grand scheme of things neither makes any difference. Why even complain about women or being mgtow? none of it matters, its just a cosmic accident and eventually it’s al gonna be dust. So what does your bitching about anything you don’t like matter? Why not just go out and deall with everyone you have a problem with the way you want? Fear? Fear of what? Nothing matters and why prolong the inevitable?

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[AwakenedParticipant 35200]

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

No offense but this just leads to everything being pointless,and existing for no reason or purpose. So nothing really matters because there’s no point to any of it. There’s no point to morals or living a certain way. All morals are equal and subjective, no one can say murdering everyone is worse than helping others, in the grand scheme of things neither makes any difference. Why even complain about women or being mgtow? none of it matters, its just a cosmic accident and eventually it’s al gonna be dust. So what does your bitching about anything you don’t like matter? Why not just go out and deall with everyone you have a problem with the way you want? Fear? Fear of what? Nothing matters and why prolong the inevitable?

So, how does this this validate the “idea” of a God(s) never mind prove in their existence?

In a World of Justin Beibers Be a Johnny Cash

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

nothing really matters …There’s no point to morals or living ….

I was a nihilist until I read Sam Harris’ The Moral Landscape.
But this thread isn’t about Morality. Its about defining what Faith is and how its beneficial. I was actually complimenting Faith to be honest. It was kind of a humble hat tip to the faithful

On Morals:
Things do matter. We feel pain so we value not feeling pain. Our well being is worth pursuing.
The collective well being of others affects our own well being.

No morals? We didn’t view Lying and Murder as fine and dandy up until 3000BC at the foot of Mt. Sinai and suddenly find out they arent kosher after all.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

No offense but this just leads to everything being pointless,and existing for no reason or purpose.

No offense taken. There is in fact “no reason or purpose” for our existence.

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

There’s no point to morals or living a certain way.

Not true. It’s what Gravel Pit has already said. Morals are necessary in order to establish (as much as possible) a civil society on which our own survival depends. We all need to get along and treat each other in a civilized manner for the mutual benefit of everybody…

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22502]

In the grand scheme of things morals, and what anyone does or does not do, are meaningless. Whether or not things run “smoothly” or “painlessly” means nothing. If our existence means nothing, how we exist means nothing. And our existence according to you means nothing because you say our existence has no reason or purpose. Meaningless. Everything is just a preference, a subjective good or bad. So what if some people are in pain, some other people might experience pleasure they are in pain. Its all meaningless because we have no reason or purpose for existing. Anarchy equals order because there’s no meaning to it.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

Its all meaningless because we have no reason or purpose for existing.

We’re here because we’re here and there is no real reason for that. But now that we are here, we can each establish a “purpose” in our own lives.

I see that purpose as doing something, anything, that might make the world just a little bit better for those that come after us. That’s what our ancestors did for us, it’s what we can do for our descendents.

There’s no reason for us being here. But now that we are here, we can create our own reason and/or purpose for staying here…

[Gravel PitParticipant]

I admit my OP was longwinded and hard to understand.

I was defending Faith, comparing it to a bodily function. Like flatulence or picking your nose. We humans just naturally fall into being faithful and sizing up everything with a human tinted lens ie anthropomorphising.

I get that most the Christians here will never accept Determinism. Their faith requires a strong feeling of free agency.

It just occurred to me when riding my bike last Friday, that given how inevitable everything is, Faith isnt necessary. Why hope for something that cant happen? Or, why have faith in something that is unstoppable from occurring anyway. Only what can happen, will happen

As Laplace says, It works without that assumption. Your faith isnt necessary to keep the Earths core rotating. It works without Faith. Faith without works is dead indeed. Faith is DOA… a fart in the unstoppable solar wind

[SpiderHerderParticipant 3753]

Existence is indeed meaningless. Any value one can assign to life is a delusion.

The first step is to understand it. The second: to accept it.

I consider it grieving for your own little self.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

I was defending Faith, comparing it to a bodily function. Like flatulence or picking your nose. We humans just naturally fall into being faithful and sizing up everything with a human tinted lens ie anthropomorphising.

I could never understand why faith is considered to be a virtue. Faith is basically the act of believing or hoping for something to be so that logic and rationality tells us isn’t. As a pragmatist, I had always felt that simply acknowledging and accepting the reality of any situation was the best approach for dealing with it.

And I’ve been accused of ‘pessimism’ for having that attitude. Which is something else that I could never really understand either. Reality is not my fault. How can I be criticized just for acknowledging it???

[AutoliteParticipant]

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

Its all meaningless because we have no reason or purpose for existing.

If you feel that your life lacks meaning or purpose then give it one! Perhaps consider spreading the MGTOW ‘word’ across all of mankind and make that your reason for being! I can’t think of a more important or higher calling than that… 🙂

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Youre not a pessimist at all. Neither is SpiderHerder. We’re just realists, but actually quite upbeat and jovial… it shines through the texts.

Now, there are some actual pessimists here LOL. People that dont seem like they laugh and smile alot in real life (I dont know, maybe they do!)

Text and keyboard is a huge filter to knowing who you’re dealing with and the mood and character they have. Mood is temporary, character us permenant.

Take a look at Elpaso and Dayton this weekend. Now that is neurotic bullsh!t… Not a big fan of Mexicans either but I dont think gunning down noncombatants is appropriate at all. What a lil coward bitch! Killing soft targets is fvcking gay.

When will it occur to these trigger happy lil cucks that a Mass Shooting Spree results in low body count and either dying or getting caught. Seems to me that is a very undiscplined and ineffiecient way of maximizing suffering on others. If it was me, Id go the serial killer route.

A few a month adds up. But that is just an observation, Im not insane and dont wish death on people.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

When will it occur to these trigger happy lil cucks that a Mass Shooting Spree results in low body count and either dying or getting caught.

Not to derail but with the Dayton shooter one of his victims was his own sister! This guy was a real sicko… 😡

[AutoliteParticipant]

What is Faith

This one is for Gravel Pit. I posted this same video on another thread but I’m posting it here again. I just want to be sure that you don’t miss it GP! AronRa absolutely nails it…

[DocParticipant]

There is no APPARENT reason for our existence.
Life has no APPARENT meaning.

We interpret evidence from our viewpoints as human beings. Inside a locked room.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[Gravel PitParticipant]

the purpose and meaning of MY life,
is to run/cycle and nerd out on ART, whether Im making the art or experiencing someone elses.

simple as that!

the best recipe for sustaining that happiness, FOR ME
is to remain SOBER and SOVEREIGN. mgtow path has ensured the Sovereign part

So that is what I do, and when I turn 80, Ill take a walk out back.

Once more unto the breach and to the last great fight Ill ever know.
Fight, Fight against the dying of the light. Fight or Die.

[DocParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

the purpose and meaning of MY life,is to run/cycle and nerd out on ART, whether Im making the art or experiencing someone elses.
simple as that!
the best recipe for sustaining that happiness, FOR MEis to remain SOBER and SOVEREIGN. mgtow path has ensured the Sovereign part
So that is what I do, and when I turn 80, Ill take a walk out back.
Once more unto the breach and to the last great fight Ill ever know.Fight, Fight against the dying of the light. Fight or Die.

This is the absolute correct way of thinking GP.
It matters little if there is some super natural meaning to life that we have yet to discover.
Life’s meaning is what we decide it to be.
On that basis – as long as we don’t intentionally/recklessly/neglectfully/knowingly harm others then we should live our lives in a manner that provides us with us much happiness/satisfaction as possible.

That means accepting what we can’t change while focusing on what we can change.

Our primary biological drives brought along through evolution are there to keep us alive as individuals within a species. Consequently they are not designed to make us feel satisfied, content, happy etc. If an animal gets too comfortable it gets eaten for example. So it is constant in some sort of survival mode which is not a comfortable state.

So to create happiness in our lives means literally going against our programming. But that doesn’t make it impossible. Just takes practice and persistence.

Bottom line is this – we owe nothing to anyone for our existence. We are here. It’s our lives. Enjoy them while you can. Grab every f~~~ing minute.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Doc wrote:

That means accepting what we can’t change while focusing on what we can change.

Sometimes in life, you feel like youre in a decaying orbit. The knee jerk reaction when losing control is to freak out and start firing on all thrusters. Instead of freaking out and wasting fuel, we roll with the descent and appraise when the time is right to give a perfect one-burn correction back into safe orbit. The timing is unknown to us, the fuel equations have not been calculated. Instead of freaking out, we roll with it and let the right solution present itself to us. It will occur to us when we are quiet, not when we are loud and panicking.

This is the wisdom presented in many faiths and denominations.
It requires only as much Faith as you want it to…

[Author]

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