Advice Needed: Deferred Payment

[MecklotParticipant 608]

I need some money-related advice.

I’m on the fence with a possible job offer working in a film set for deferred pay; that is, working while you get paid at a much later date.

But in my situation, I get paid if the movie sells. Around 15K – 20K. I work for 20 days. If it doesn’t sell, I get nothing but gas compensation. I feel this is too risky and too much of a gamble.

My question: Should I take deferred payment jobs? As I said, I feel that its too risky. I might end up working for free and being taking advantage of.

[Dark KenshiParticipant 2132]

Put every single information about your work and the movie in a contract, and make the producers and the director to sign it.

Specify the movies name, the directors name, the producers agency and names, the amount promised by them (be it a percentage or a fixed sum), with their addresses.

Every bit of information can and will help you in a possible law sue that you may have to take, but it seems that the job pays well, and gets some risks by doing it.

15~20k in 20 days are worth working.

"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.

[Red_Pill_SouljaParticipant 221]

I wouldn’t do it tbh.

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

I’ve done it before. The company I was doing the work for had to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment and contractors, and were running on vapors. I had worked for them full time in the past for a decade, but was doing contract work for them at the time, I actually offered up deferred payment, to help them out. It was/is a family business so they couldn’t get any loans. They paid me, with interest, about a year later, over $50,000 for several months of work.

I would say you need to factor in whether you can afford NOT to be paid, whether you have current bills you must pay. Also consider whether you will gain experience or contacts leading to other work, and whether you like the work and people.

I’ve never worked on a royalty basis like what you describe but I understand it’s common in entertainment where outcomes are very uncertain.

In my case, I enjoyed the unique work and experience, it wouldn’t have destroyed me to not be paid but I obviously wouldn’t have been happy. This company is/was employing lots of blue collar workers in a destitute rural area, so it wasn’t a time to be a greedy SOB.

If it is just cold math and none of these considerations matter, take whatever you KNOW you’ll make not taking the job (your current earnings for same hours worked+travel), and compare it to your estimate of likelihood that you’ll be paid, say 25% times the amount paid, and do whichever is greater. e.g. 25% x $15,000 = $3,750 — if the likelihood of payment is only 25%, for 20 days that is the equivalent of only about $23/hr so try to find out what percent of the company’s films fail/succeed so you know what percent multiplier to apply.

[Anonymous 0]

Google “deferred payment agreement film”. Apparently it’s a pretty standard arrangement in indie film-making. There are reasons why it might be an okay arrangement for participants. For example, if it’s a resume-builder, gets you access to people you want to work with, and you get perks like food on the set, then it won’t be a total loss even if they never pay.

The main thing is to lock in terms in a good contract. Again, do the google: There are lots of examples of standard contracts for that sort of thing, as well as advice on what to expect.

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

Mecklot wrote:

I feel this is too risky and too much of a gamble.

Trust your gut feeling on that one, dude. I do work in the industry as well for a good couple of years now and from my experience all I can say is: the chance for getting paid belatedly like that are just as slim as the chances of winning the lottery if anything.

Dark Kenshi wrote:

Specify the movies name, the directors name, the producers agency and names, the amount promised by them (be it a percentage or a fixed sum), with their addresses.

Well, in continental Europe even that doesn’t really help. No it seems more like just another scam from the trick box to take the p~~~ out of film crew staff or to rip ’em off 101 even though they may promise you god knows what, but like I said the chances are very slim indeed.

Now, let me give you one drastic example here of my own.

I once worked on a movie for chump change, but boy they were promising all sorts of stuff if the movie might get successfully marketed similar to your case as in a good couple of ks and yes I did get that as a deferred contract, too from those shady people, but guess what happened…

Almost a year after the flick was finished (and it didn’t even turn out bad at all so it could have well been marketed) I actually happened to know a great producer with lots of contacts, who was even interested in the project once I told him about it. Now, with his permission I handed his contact details to the guys who made the film and telling them like: “Listen people, there is this hot shot producer, who has got a lot of contacts and who could therefore well help you to market the movie, so in your own interest get in contact with that guy…”, so I basically handed them a helping hand with all of his contact details on a silver platter and guess what happened…

Half a year to about a year later I contacted that producer again but he said those people never even made one single attempt to contact him within the last 6 to 12 months. And the latest thing what I heard about the movie (feature film by the way and a great psycho thriller similar to “Misery”) was that meanwhile it is being sold for chump change as a video on demand sort of thing on vimeo.

Well done people, you could have done so much better but no, you just wouldn’t have any of that now or would you…?

So ever since then –> no more deferred payment jobs whatsoever for me on any film productions thank you very much for nothing…

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[Anonymous 0]

Here’s a link to a thread about deferred payment films on a message board for the indie film community: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=38272

They sound pretty knowledgeable about the subject, and they basically say: Don’t expect to see any money from it.

[MecklotParticipant 608]

FrankOne wrote:

I would say you need to factor in whether you can afford NOT to be paid, whether you have current bills you must pay.

I’m currently unemployed right now since I’m mainly a student and it’s summer vacation. I live with my parents, so I don’t have any bills to pay. Money isn’t tight, so it isn’t a huge loss if I don’t get paid or if I don’t take the job. At the same time, it would help to get some money in my bank. I already have a good deal of experience, but I’ll be working with green screen, so that will be something.

Maybe I should take the job. Traveling to and from the set is not as bad as I thought it would be (thought it was 30+ miles, actually around 20 miles to get there). And gas is covered.

At this point, I’m leaning towards yes.

[MecklotParticipant 608]

Damn Ned Trent, stories like that are what make me doubtful about this opportunity. It really is a gamble.

Now I’m leaning towards no.

I’m only 1/3 finished with reading that thread TwoStep posted, and it’s already solidifying my “no” opinion. Thanks TwoStep, that thread is insightful.

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

Well Mecklot, like FrankOne stated before: if you can afford not to get paid at all ever then yeah do it why not..?

But you know back then I couldn’t afford it (although I thought I could, damn how naive I was) and neither can I afford it now or ever again for the foreseeable future to go for such substance-lacking-f~~~ing-about-nonsense since the times for me meanwhile have changed rather drastically and by now I do have more than enough references and contacts, sooo …

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[MecklotParticipant 608]

Yeah, at this point, I think it’s final, I’m going to decline the offer. I’m really finicky about gas, and what they offered me doesn’t seem like enough, especially for 20 days.

Better safe than sorry. Thanks for your advice you guys!

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Dark Kenshi wrote:

Put every single information about your work and the movie in a contract, and make the producers and the director to sign it.

Specify the movies name, the directors name, the producers agency and names, the amount promised by them (be it a percentage or a fixed sum), with their addresses.

Every bit of information can and will help you in a possible law sue that you may have to take, but it seems that the job pays well, and gets some risks by doing it.

15~20k in 20 days are worth working.

And get the contract notarized by a notary of the county you live in.

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