A lot gets said about women's biology…

[JanglesParticipant 18]

My apologies if there is an older thread covering this, but ever the inquiring mind…

There’s a lot said on here, and I’ve heard a fair amount from other MGTOWS, about… ‘Woman are this way’ or ‘This is female biology’
So, whats to be said about our biology? is there a preset pattern that we all follow? or is it…a choice on some level?

I tend to believe the latter. We, may have preset impulses, we may have preset instinct but hey prefrontal cortex lets us over-ride a lot of it. Women however…also have the same cortexes(cortexies) that we have, so why do is it so often stated that ‘its not a choice’ for them unless the same holds true for us, but then how can we ever go our own way? if thats just a programming subroutine?

Besides, Saying its strictly biological takes away responsibility, which I strictly disagree with. you dont get mad at a kid for his impulses, you dont get mad at a dog for theirs, so there seems to be this weird mental state over women.

Am I missing something here?

[braininavatParticipant 95]

A lot of MGTOWs are influenced by evolutionary psychology, and if you follow this approach, yes, there is a “way” that women are like and a “way” that men are like. There are some really wonderful lectures on evolutionary psychology by Allen D. Macneill. I can’t recommend this strongly enough. If you want to learn something about evolutionary psychology, this is the place to start. Check out your local library to see if they have these available.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Scholar-Evolutionary-Psychology/dp/B00435HBGO

Once you give yourself a little intellectual background, you can branch out from there.

Men and women have distinct mating and procreation strategies. Barbarossa has rightly observed that men and women are not partners in reproduction, they are rivals. The mating strategies that have best served men to leave their genetic material for the next generation has shaped male biology, hence evolutionary psychology, while the mating strategies that have best served women to leave their genetic material for the next generation has similarly shaped female biology, hence evolutionary psychology.

Women have only a finite number of eggs that they can bring to maturity in a finite number of years. They need to get the best sperm they can for each and every egg they can bring to maturity, and they need to find the best possible support and protection for themselves and their young children during that period of time when they cannot provide for themselves or their children. Hence, alpha fux and beta bux. Men have an almost unlimited amount of sperm, and they leave the greatest genetic legacy by impregnating as many young and healthy females as they possibly can. To pass up on a chance to impregnate a woman (i.e., to pass up on a chance for sex) is the same as genetic suicide. The women we find most attractive are those that have the phenotypical markers of health (good genes): clear skin, well endowed with secondary sexual characteristics, muscular coordination (the best looking girls tend to be the best dancers), etc. We find these attractive because they are healthy; men in the past who were attracted to this phenotypic profile were more successful in leaving their genetic legacy.

That we have typical patterns of behavior does not mean that we cannot do otherwise. Most people will be on what Stardusk calls “autopilot,” but simply becoming self-aware of your instinctual drives will make it possible for you to critique your own impulses, acting only upon those that benefit you. This is the true definition of freedom, not “doing whatever you want.”

Women, too, have this ability as do men. If you live long enough, you will meet a small handful of both men and women who have used their prefrontal cortex functions to overcome their instinctual drives. They are outliers. Most people, by definition, are to be found in the bulge of the bell curve. Most women you meet will be in the bulge of the bell curve, as will most men. But if you spend a lifetime educating yourself, you can use your exceptional hominid brain to raise yourself above biological drives. That is a choice. Not everyone makes this choice, even if they have a brain that makes it possible. We human beings have equality of opportunity, but not equality of condition.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

There’s a lot said on here, and I’ve heard a fair amount from other MGTOWS, about… ‘Woman are this way’ or ‘This is female biology’ So, whats to be said about our biology? is there a preset pattern that we all follow? or is it…a choice on some level?

There is a reason there is such a thing as “Women’s Studies” and not Men’s studies. And if they use the term “gender studies” it’s still “women’s studies” with a different label. You will notice that women are OK when men are talking about all kinds of mundane s~~~ like sports, or money, or cars, or work, …. but when the subject turns to “women” they become very uncomfortable.

They work very hard every day of their lives to misrepresent themselves. From “I want a nice guy” to their hair color…. in virtually no way are women to be taken at face value. Not their looks. Not their words. Not their motivations. When men are talking about how “women are this way” or “this is female biology”, they(we) are making an effort to understand the reality behind the illusion women present.

Ask a man what he wants ( or what he is thinking) and he will generally tell you the truth.
Ask a woman what she wants and she will FLAT OUT LIE TO YOU. Even if she’s your girlfriend or wife.
…often without even realizing it herself.

This is why it’s important to understand female biology. A man has to know that “I want a nice guy” doesn’t mean “I want a nice guy”. He must know “we need to talk” means she needs to talk, and you need to listen. He needs to know “you are a loser with a tiny penis” means “I’m so f~~~ing angry I can’t manipulate you with my vagina.”,…. and he must know “you probably can’t get laid” doesn’t mean that either.

It’s all a goddam manipulation. Every f~~~ing word. It’s their entire MO (modus operandi / mode of operation). Women are hardwired to misrepresent themselves. This is their instinct. A man who can best her instinct – and understand her better than even she understands herself – will have a tremendous advantage over women.

What a great advantage a man can have over women if he only knew what cold and calculating thoughts are going through her mind while her eyes are brimming with tears.

– Esther Vilar (The Manipulated Man)

The programming subroutine you are speaking about is actually grilled into us by them (beginning with your own mother) since the crib. A western man is constantly being socially engineered AWAY from his natural instincts. It’s not a natural instinct (or biological desire) to sign a marriage contract. It’s not natural for you to be monogamous. It’s not natural for you to “ask for permission” to kiss a girl. it’s not natural for man to take a bullet for women he doesn’t even know. But that’s how they WANT you to be.

It can take a man 1/2 a lifetime (or longer) to undo this s~~~ty programming — IF he survives that long.

The female biological instincts – from hypergamy, to misrepresenting herself perfectly – are all openly encouraged as “you go girl power”. A man’s biological instincts are shunned, shamed, curbed and even drugged if necessary. The last thing women want is for men to wake up and snap out of it – like MGTOW have.

Is it a choice? You bet it is. It’s a choice they would rather you didn’t make.
Because now they can’t control you anymore.

An uncontrollable, unpredictable, challenging and dominant man is an enormous threat to female / feminist power and control. They will do and say anything to prevent you from becoming that guy. But she will still have sex with you. She just can’t emasculate you anymore or sucker you into being her slave. That’s the beauty of it all.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[XwhYParticipant 16]

First, I would caution everyone to not rely on evolutionary psychology as a basis of their understanding of the current situation that is destroying men and women. History is re-written quite often, and to presuppose that we know what happened in the past that may have caused an adaptation in the mind is at best, a poorly educated guess. Evolutionary psychology is fascinating in the way it attempts to explain who we are, but most of the theories that we have developed since we first began to investigate our behaviors have proven to be hollow. Neuroscience in the last 10 years has destroyed many of the types of therapy that were set up by different schools of thought in regards to psychology. Neuroscience may add additional insight to evolutionary psychology’s ideas, but it could also prove it to be completely wrong. Genetics has learned that there is more to our genome than we ever expected, and epi-genetics is still in it’s infancy.
Second, evolutionary psychology has not dealt effectively with the discovery of neuroplasticity or lymbic sync. We are much less “hardwired”, as you say, then we once thought.
Third, how we handle the genetic hand that we are dealt is our choice. Lying is not a function of biology. It is a socially conditioned response to the actual genetic predisposition of self-preservation.
Lastly, I want everyone to understand that even if we were once nothing but biologically driven, that does not excuse us from not demanding more from ourselves today than what we were in the past. Evolution may or may not have brought us here, but we need to consciously choose where we will go next.

“In a world of complete relativity, the depths of a person’s depravity is only limited by that which he or she can intellectually justify.”
-XwhY?

[JanglesParticipant 18]

Holy s~~~! I didn’t quite expect the literature dump but its appreciated all the same. I’ve read a fair amount of the ‘evolutionary psychology’ and its a pretty good start. Its kind of hard to ignore hypergamy in advertising. There’s a slew of youtube videos showing the power in pickup of a really nice car and so on.

Got to say braininavat I liked you closing statement. Not sure why evolution would push us to opposing strategies. I mean most of the time I’ve read about the usual ‘nuclear family’ setup it does seem pretty f~~~ing solid as far as survival is concerned. It does behoove a male to support the woman and more to the point his offspring. Not to say he’s not getting action on but monogamy can be seen outside of just apes so, can’t say its a bad stratagem. It is as you say though, not the only one. What you think about ‘omega’ males or the ones that shirk the usual social contract are often viewed as ‘the lowest of the low’ by some but revered for their cunning by others? sounds a lot like going your own way to me.

Yeah, I can’t say the number of times I’ve caught my mother trying guilt-trips or shaming tactics to influence my behavior. Been calling people out for it last few years because I’m kind of tired of it. Half the time its only barely obfuscated, if even that thin veil is kept.

What say you Keymaster to the idea of using the social contract against them? as it does seem their preferred MO as you say? Convenient of course that even some of their formative leaders admit that it has nearly always been women writing the damn thing. Small wonder why they like it so. I’d say it feels a bit underhanded, but Sun Tzu said all war is deception.

Can’t say I agree with you all the way Xwhy?, but you’ve got one or two.
Lying isn’t genetic you say, but have you ever had to teach a child to lie? We spend a lot of time trying to convince them that the truth is the right path, do we not?
Having a cortex like we do lets us teach ourselves to tell the more lizard brain to shut up, but there’s some interesting fear studies with rats and severing the amygdala and their primative cortex’s connection. Hard-wiring lives forever but we can teach ourselves to ignore it. Near as I can tell we have to.
one last shot here, what say you to the effects of Oxytocin in the brain, and how estrogen makes it stronger, while testosterone inhibits its function? Considering that women nearly always have more of the former, and us men more of the latter. Just some brain food to chew on.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

RE Evolutionary Psychology. @xwhy said it:

First, I would caution everyone to not rely on evolutionary psychology as a basis of their understanding of the current situation that is destroying men and women…….. We are much less “hardwired”, as you say, then we once thought.

Precisely. We shouldn’t overthink it and would be better off placing more emphasis on evolutionary biology. Biology is where it’s at. To best understand the fundamentals of women and men, look no further than biology. Therein are the answers. Throw “psychology” right out the window for a moment, and think about how we are the only species on the planet which known sex leads to a baby.

Other species have simply not made the connection. The Lioness that got pumped under a tree that afternoon those many months ago….. makes NO association to her cubs being the result of hat event. Males in nature don’t know they are making a baby when they bang a female either. He is also not going to sit around and wait to “support” her because “it’s the right thing to do”. They won’t be picking out colors to paint the den, or buy cute outfits in advance – never mind knowing the SEX of the cub in advance.

Any understanding an animal has of this is PURE hardwiring.
There is no preparation, careful calculation, deliberation or thought placed on any of it.
It just “happens”. Naturally. The psychology of social dynamics are unstudied and unexplored in the animal kingdom.

Knowing where babies come from – in advance – has f~~~ed us up, because the human understanding of it all causes women and men to negotiate and DESTROY all natural instincts. The only instinct we have left is to f~~~, but the “psychology” destroys natural chemistry which is virtually non-existent. The highly intelligent & educated humans will practice “psychology” and THINK first before having a child, and may even decide not to breed because of the costs, the considerations, the implications and the fact that they can’t afford to have one. The over-thinking and psychology behind it just doesn’t occur in nature. Humans are the only species that thinks it through BEFORE it “happens”. In nature, the best, strongest, and most fertile will breed, and the weak ones won’t. In humans, the females (who nature may have even determined are too old, or just uneatable) will still get sperm from a bank, artificially inseminate her own fat ass, or allow a weak beta to impregnate and support her simply because “she really wants a baby” and he makes enough money. Nature & biology would never allow them to get away with this s~~~.

She would be DINNER in the animal kingdom…. instead of a mother. She would not be teaching “Lioness studies” in the Sahara and cry “rape” when no males are even interested in breeding with her. So the “psychology” of it is really only a recent consideration when trying to understand how humans are to survive and perpetuate the species in the skewed unnatural world we live in.

Jangles says:

What say you Keymaster to the idea of using the social contract against them? as it does seem their preferred MO as you say? Convenient of course that even some of their formative leaders admit that it has nearly always been women writing the damn thing. Small wonder why they like it so. I’d say it feels a bit underhanded, but Sun Tzu said all war is deception.

I say you’re absolutely right. It’s a requirement today. Instead of ALLOWING single mothers who nature has already selected for extinction, MGTOW are the males saying “that’s not natural. I won’t support your spawn. Those aren’t my kids. F~~~ you.” A lioness can’t get away with committing paternity fraud. Instead of allowing gold diggers, men must be aware of their “psychology” and beat them — thereby enforcing the laws of nature and the fundamentals of right and wrong. Since female humans have evolved to use psychology instead of biology…. and think they are re-writing the natural order or things (or the social contract), it’s the human male’s responsibility to best her at her own “game”.

Yeah, I can’t say the number of times I’ve caught my mother trying guilt-trips or shaming tactics to influence my behavior. Been calling people out for it last few years because I’m kind of tired of it.

You’re lucky. I am not just “kind of” tried of it…. I am absolutely FED UP with it. I have hit my ceiling with it. My limits have been tested to the point where I will just say “knock it off. that won’t work.” – which is met with a look of confusion and irritation because they don’t even have an understanding of their own tactics!

Fortunately, NOBODY is easier to manipulate ….. than a manipulator.

It’s time for Men to re-write the social contract.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

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