21st Century Zen

[NioZenParticipant 856]

The bizarre nature of reality as laid out by quantum theory has survived another test, with scientists performing a famous experiment and proving that reality does not exist until it is measured.
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Physicists at The Australian National University (ANU) have conducted John Wheeler’s delayed-choice thought experiment, which involves a moving object that is given the choice to act like a particle or a wave. Wheeler’s experiment then asks – at which point does the object decide?
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http://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/experiment-confirms-quantum-theory-weirdness

One of the oddest predictions of quantum theory – that a system can’t change while you’re watching it – has been confirmed in an experiment by Cornell physicists.
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Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-10-zeno-effect-verifiedatoms-wont.html#jCp

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:21
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“Many paths lead from the foot of the mountain, but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon.”
-Ikkyu

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John Wheeler’s delayed-choice thought experiment explained:

Enjoy gentlemen.

We only dream this bondage. Wake up and let it go. - Vivekananda

[RoyDalParticipant]

Great topic! Thank you for posting this.

By the way, please allow me to recommend to any readers of this thread that you search YouTube for “Alan Watts”. It could be enlightening.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[hmskl’dParticipant 6406]

So, per the experiment, we don’t generate our consciousness which is in a different reality than our rule-set, our nature, our reality and physical form. We are in a virtual reality. Consciousness is non physical to us. ‘Our player’ is our consciousness .. delayed choice. When you make the measurement – the particle exists – because you looked for it.

Then, expectations of the Physicist enter the picture. Materialism isn’t right. Programmer is larger consciousness system. Sends for the data and then result based on probability. Wheeler – It from bit.

The difficulty is that most academics still cling to materialism. Material makes all … and consciousness is result of matter. To them this experiment evolves into a Philosophical and almost a Religious argument. They will inevitably attempt to preserve the current materialistic view because this is how we all were taught. Considering the health sciences, alone – the economic aspects of changing the current view of materialism could be staggering. The idea of a consciousness beyond materialism also seems to delve into one’s basic core beliefs of self determination … am I truly setting my own path; or is the way appearing essentially because I asked for it – with a final result based upon probability .. it from bit?

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

hmskl’d wrote:

Then, expectations of the Physicist enter the picture. Materialism isn’t right. Programmer is larger consciousness system. Sends for the data and then result based on probability. Wheeler – It from bit.

Some more recent hard research on the possibility that reality is a computer program is by physicist S. James Gates Jr, and his friends.

http://www.onbeing.org/program/uncovering-codes-reality/feature/symbols-power-adinkras-and-nature-reality/1460

The article is from 2011, but the audio download of an interview by Mister Gates, at the top of the page, is from 2013. It is ground breaking research, and worth checking out.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Speaking of Zen, these books have never gone out of print for very good reason. (They’re available on Amazon, but, if I put in the links, then this will get sent to the spam folder. If you’re that interested, then you will be able to find them.)

* Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind. by Shunryu Suzuki and Trudy Dixon

* The Three Pillars of Zen: Teaching, Practice, and Enlightenmentm. by Philip Kapleau Roshi

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[uchibenkeiParticipant 7965]

So if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear, there is no tree.

I bathe in the tears of single moms.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

uchibenkei wrote:

So if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear, there is no tree.

Of course not. No point in rendering what is unseen. Lower the number of draw calls and make things easier on the graphics card of life.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Tiga K wrote:

Of course not. No point in rendering what is unseen. Lower the number of draw calls and make things easier on the graphics card of life.

Actually, a tree would still likely fall, because symmetry has to be maintained in the program, or there is risk of a crash.

What some people don’t realize is that we may not be users, but merely self-aware programs.

If you want to know what I am talking about, go watch the film, The Thirtieth Floor. That film is a truly underrated sci-fi movie that examines this issue in more detail. Think the concept of the Matrix turned on its head.

[Tiga KParticipant 1693]

Faust For Science wrote:

TigaChris wrote:

Of course not. No point in rendering what is unseen. Lower the number of draw calls and make things easier on the graphics card of life.

Actually, a tree would still likely fall, because symmetry has to be maintained in the program, or there is risk of a crash.

What some people don’t realize is that we may not be users, but merely self-aware programs.

If you want to know what I am talking about, go watch the film, The Thirtieth Floor. That film is a truly underrated sci-fi movie that examines this issue in more detail. Think the concept of the Matrix turned on its head.

Looks like an interesting film, I’ll have to check it out. As for my comment, I was just saying it wouldn’t be rendered visually assuming the programmer set the camera to have a cutoff limit for what is rendered. I haven’t done much game programming but from what I remember the engine I used did that automatically, in order for the program to run efficiently. So basically there will be a tree when the player is close enough, but for now it is only information that will become the tree that fell.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Tiga K wrote:

Looks like an interesting film, I’ll have to check it out. As for my comment, I was just saying it wouldn’t be rendered visually assuming the programmer set the camera to have a cutoff limit for what is rendered. I haven’t done much game programming but from what I remember the engine I used did that automatically, in order for the program to run efficiently. So basically there will be a tree when the player is close enough, but for now it is only information that will become the tree that fell.

Please, let me know what you think of the film. I would love to discuss the film, but doing so can easily spoil the film and it has a good twist.

[NioZenParticipant 856]

Hi guys, sorry haven’t looked in on this thread. I posted it and it didn’t show, but I know KM is busy so I thought I give him a chance to dig it out of the bitbucket, and if not I’d just repost. He’s on the case as ever though so TY KM.

RoyDal wrote:

Great topic! Thank you for posting this.

By the way, please allow me to recommend to any readers of this thread that you search YouTube for “Alan Watts”. It could be enlightening.

Thanks RoyDal, yeah, Alan Watts has a great explanation for this – about a thought splitting it’s self up into many?

hmskl’d wrote:

So, per the experiment, we don’t generate our consciousness which is in a different reality than our rule-set, our nature, our reality and physical form. We are in a virtual reality. Consciousness is non physical to us. ‘Our player’ is our consciousness .. delayed choice. When you make the measurement – the particle exists – because you looked for it.

That’s what the experiments tell us, especially the delayed choice double split experiment. I’ve put a lot of thought into this recently. Actually it’s quite easy to understand the ephemeral nature of reality and the constancy of the observer if you think about dreams. Science doesn’t really want to touch dreams, explanations for them abound. That’s not important. What IS important is that you experience a second reality when you dream. So the constant observer in two realities is something we are familiar with. Forget the mechanics for a second – if we’re switching realities so easily, and those are data, are we are switching game disks on a Playstation?

Will come back to the rest in a sec, some awesome points you made.

If it is a probabilistic data environment, this is answered:

uchibenkei wrote:

So if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear, there is no tree.

Yup, there is no spoon! The tree doesn’t fall if there is no game loaded in that area, because no players are there. When a player turns up, the most likely state for that area is rendered on your data feed, your screen. If there’s a super calculator, that’s what it logically wants to be doing, making things simple and efficient. And now we’ve caught it in the act. No tree.

Tiga K wrote:

Of course not. No point in rendering what is unseen. Lower the number of draw calls and make things easier on the graphics card of life.

Bingo.

Faust For Science wrote:

Actually, a tree would still likely fall, because symmetry has to be maintained in the program, or there is risk of a crash.

Yup. But the tree doesn’t need to be rendered, just computed. More evidence that there is computing going on if you take away rendering. The giveaway is that the passage of time is computing based because the variable for ‘age of tree’ is still there, and that variable is changing according to a rule.

And we could be programs. If this is how hardcore the maths engine is that we are living in is, if this is what it can do, then sure why not, We probably have to use some sort of all encompassing language to fully explain what we are – the buck stops somewhere. A higher mathematics as a description is likely if we are seeing mathematics all around us.

Takes me back to this:

hmskl’d wrote:

The difficulty is that most academics still cling to materialism. Material makes all … and consciousness is result of matter. To them this experiment evolves into a Philosophical and almost a Religious argument. They will inevitably attempt to preserve the current materialistic view because this is how we all were taught.

E=mc2, F=ma, a2 + b2 = c2, speed of light c. It’s not wrong, but these are artifacts of the way reality is rendered. It mathematics engine code.

The great thing about thinking in these terms is its inclusive nature. Everyone gets to learn something, but everyone get to be right about something too. Wouldn’t a unifying truth have that sort of effect? It would have to!

We only dream this bondage. Wake up and let it go. - Vivekananda

[hellraiderParticipant 2837]

You guys do realize that you cant make up conclusions on human conscience based on quantum phenomena?

New age gurus spend there time peddling useless crap based on scientific sounding words, especially quantum something something.

Quantum mechanics is a real and legitamate area of science.

But you can make assumptions and predictions about reality and the human mind based on quantum physics.

In science, you can have a theory about something, but its useless if it cant be tested.

I can postulate that the whole universe is just a quark inside another universe.

Can that ideia be tested? No!!!
So its useless philosophy.

Just stick with science and learn more about the scientific method guys.

PS And now lets start bashing me because i dont agree with you guys…

[NEVERGELParticipant 166]

RoyDal wrote:

* Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind. by Shunryu Suzuki and Trudy Dixon

* The Three Pillars of Zen: Teaching, Practice, and Enlightenmentm. by Philip Kapleau Roshi

Right on RoyDal! Those are two of my favorite books on Zen.

I would also like to add “Being Upright” by Reb Anderson

I live the life I love and I love the life I live.

[Mr_WhiteParticipant 48]

I’ve studied philosophy for most of my adult life both formally and informally but it was Alan Watts who really got me to understand eastern thought beyond the intellectual level; will second RoyDal and would also add Zen Flesh Zen Bones by Paul Reps to the reading list.

Let go or be dragged -Zen proverb

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