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Puffin Stuff 3 years, 4 months ago.
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Anonymous3Some rough thoughts which I am channelling here:
I regard the ‘Red Pill’ as a synonym for an aware state, which is to say, someone who understands how society works.
I have some brief thoughts on how this awareness comes about. I would argue it is a systematic process: in other words, you don’t suddenly become Red Pill overnight, but rather the Red Pill is a consilience of different experiences and factors, some of which are highly idiosyncratic and personal, that come together to form a ‘totality of awareness’.
It occurs to me that when Neo was offered the Red Pill in The Matrix, one way of looking at it is that Morpheus was giving him a placebo. Neither pill would have had any effect on Neo biochemically. The ‘pill’ is a poor metaphor, but also appropriate: Morpheus was helping Neo to acknowledge his own awareness and confront it. I regard ‘thinking’ anyway as partly an emotional process, and I think that was what Morpheus was helping Neo with. We are MGTOWs partly because we find this emotionally comfortable.
I used to be a Marxist (in my 20s), then I was a white nationalist (in my 30s). I spent all those years worrying about society – basically I was a Blue Piller, and I thought I understood society, only to find another perspective on things that changed my thinking fundamentally.
But this was not a wasted process – it was my own systematic process towards greater or higher awareness.
Now, as a MGHOW, I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective, but my broader interpretation is in flux. I remain unsure and confused, because I can see so many different things going on.
I am slowly coming round to the view that the Eastern religions might have been right and that the only way to resolve this might be some form of Enlightenment – maybe Buddhism, or its Western version, Stoicism.
The Red Pill is not enlightenment. It’s just awareness. Being aware does not make you enlightened, but it’s a start.
Enlightenment is a state beyond MGTOW. I think Stealthy already touched on this somewhere. Perhaps the post-MGTOW state is some kind of Stoicism or Buddhism, which we may have to discuss and consider.
Anonymous24Now, as a MGHOW, I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective, but my broader interpretation is in flux. I remain unsure and confused, because I can see so many different things going on.
Didn’t you argue in favor of Marijuana being illegal?
You are not even close to being a Libertarian. If you would like to rephrase that or explain something further, no worries, I am not here to start a fight. That statement just kinda punched me in the mouth.
Anonymous3Now, as a MGHOW, I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective, but my broader interpretation is in flux. I remain unsure and confused, because I can see so many different things going on.
Didn’t you argue in favor of Marijuana being illegal?
You are not even close to being a Libertarian. If you would like to rephrase that or explain something further, no worries, I am not here to start a fight. That statement just kinda punched me in the mouth.
I did not say I am a libertarian. To be precise, I stated that I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective.
But ‘libertarian’ does not mean anything goes and I don’t believe that people should be allowed to just do what they like. That would be a recipe for disaster, and I don’t see how any mature person could adopt such a view.
If you want to start an argument about cannabis/marijuana, go ahead, because I have a lot to say on the subject.
For one thing, I want to know why f~~~ers like you keep lying about it being ‘harmless’. It is NOT harmless. It causes mental health problems and as I stated the last time this was discussed, I have confronted people who were high on cannabis and got violent.
In fact, an incident that happened just the other day was one of the ‘experiences’ I was going to post about.
A man high on weed (I can tell) started threatening me in the street for absolutely no reason.
If you want to come on here and try and justify your greasy drug-pushing, then go ahead, but don’t expect an easy ride from me.
I know what your drug does to people.
It occurs to me that when Neo was offered the Red Pill in The Matrix, one way of looking at it is that Morpheus was giving him a placebo. Neither pill would have had any effect on Neo biochemically.
I once watched an interview with the brothers who directed the Matrix films. It’s actually based on “Alice in Wonderland”… and the references to “the white rabbit” are strategic and intentional.
Morpheus opens the “red pill” scene by saying “I imagine you’re feeling a little like Alice… tumbling down the rabbit hole……”, and ends with “take the blue pill, you stay in Wonderland. Take the red pill, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes”.
It’s a story about a girl who tumbles into an alternate SKEWED reality. But Neo actually lives in a skewed reality, and his journey is about arriving at his own stream of consciousness.
It’s a very fitting parallel/ analogy to MGTOW, and when I first saw the movie, my mind was blown.
—
I knew the story very well growing up because I read it as a kid, and even played “the knave of hearts who stole the tarts” in a school production of it. I always thought “the tarts” where a metaphor for “cute women”…. and the KnaveOfHearts was a PUA/Player….. and that’s why the ugly / evil feminist Queen said “off with his head”. I don’t know if it’s SUPPOSED to be about that, but it sure is ironic.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.The pill will do nothing if you don’t already have the info in you head … hidden subconsciously.
That would mean that mgtow 101 school would have to be opened in order to inject such reason.
It’s more of an awakening of all the awful s~~~ you buried to keep sane and living in denial.
Red pill rage is you realising that you’ve more or less tricked yourself … and now your p~~~ed hahaha
You are giving yourself permission to remove the gyno filters and see the system for what it is.
Yes you were indoctrinated from a young age but it is you …. and only you that can press the wake up button.
That’s why other men never will.
Better the devil you know ….. they think.
Anonymous18The red pill is blue-print (no pun intended) of ‘how-to’ the pieces of the puzzle together.
What would take a man few failed relationships, a divorce-rape, and still feel lost – is now all consolidated in the red pill. He is not alone.
The Red Pill is not enlightenment. It’s just awareness. Being aware does not make you enlightened, but it’s a start.
I don’t see red pill (awareness) as grounds (?) for enlightenment. I think it’s the sad nature of men’s reality that pointing out the true nature of workings of the world makes us feel so relieved and thankful as to almost feel a promise of enlightenment – that is the burden taken off of our shoulders of lies and deceits we are brainwashed since birth.
Enlightenment is a complete beast altogether.
To elaborate further – red pill is the Eureka moment. Clean slate. Now paint what and how you like.
Anonymous3The pill will do nothing if you don’t already have the info in you head … hidden subconsciously.
That would mean that mgtow 101 school would have to be opened in order to inject such reason.
It’s more of an awakening of all the awful s~~~ you buried to keep sane and living in denial.
Red pill rage is you realising that you’ve more or less tricked yourself … and now your p~~~ed hahaha
This is exactly what I meant – well put, thanks.
The red pill is blue-print (no pun intended) of ‘how-to’ the pieces of the puzzle together.
What would take a man few failed relationships, a divorce-rape, and still feel lost – is now all consolidated in the red pill. He is not alone.
The Red Pill is not enlightenment. It’s just awareness. Being aware does not make you enlightened, but it’s a start.
I don’t see red pill (awareness) as grounds (?) for enlightenment. I think it’s the sad nature of men’s reality that pointing out the true nature of workings of the world makes us feel so relieved and thankful as to almost feel a promise of enlightenment – that is the burden taken off of our shoulders of lies and deceits we are brainwashed since birth.
Enlightenment is a complete beast altogether.
To elaborate further – red pill is the Eureka moment. Clean slate. Now paint what and how you like.
Yes, again this is actually what I was getting at. The Red Pill itself does not make you enlightened, but it’s a possible first step down the road.
The connection between the Matrix and Alice makes a lot of sense – not sure if this has been posted before, but it gives an interesting perspective on what Lewis Carroll was writing about in 1865, and it was not Disney…
(Never did a link before – so I tried it 2 ways)
Anonymous24Now, as a MGHOW, I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective, but my broader interpretation is in flux. I remain unsure and confused, because I can see so many different things going on.
Didn’t you argue in favor of Marijuana being illegal?
You are not even close to being a Libertarian. If you would like to rephrase that or explain something further, no worries, I am not here to start a fight. That statement just kinda punched me in the mouth.
I did not say I am a libertarian. To be precise, I stated that I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective.
But ‘libertarian’ does not mean anything goes and I don’t believe that people should be allowed to just do what they like. That would be a recipe for disaster, and I don’t see how any mature person could adopt such a view.
If you want to start an argument about cannabis/marijuana, go ahead, because I have a lot to say on the subject.
For one thing, I want to know why f~~~ers like you keep lying about it being ‘harmless’. It is NOT harmless. It causes mental health problems and as I stated the last time this was discussed, I have confronted people who were high on cannabis and got violent.
In fact, an incident that happened just the other day was one of the ‘experiences’ I was going to post about.
A man high on weed (I can tell) started threatening me in the street for absolutely no reason.
If you want to come on here and try and justify your greasy drug-pushing, then go ahead, but don’t expect an easy ride from me.
I know what your drug does to people.
You are nuts. Good luck with that.
You also don’t even have a toe in the lobby of the building of Libertarianism. You are a Trad Con Dinosaur who denies even PRESDENTIAL studies of Marijuana. Marijuana is FAR less harmful to society than Alcohol. Trad Cons like you do not lambaste the legality of it though…
I won’t get into this again with you, the thread where you battled all logic in a Marijuana debate was comical enough.
Please do not say you have ANYWHERE near a Libertarian outlook, as Marijuana legality to a Libertarian is the FIRST litmus test. You do realize we would like to decriminalize all drugs right? And end the Prison Industrial Complex…
You are a Trad Con, own it.
Anonymous3Now, as a MGHOW, I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective, but my broader interpretation is in flux. I remain unsure and confused, because I can see so many different things going on.
Didn’t you argue in favor of Marijuana being illegal?
You are not even close to being a Libertarian. If you would like to rephrase that or explain something further, no worries, I am not here to start a fight. That statement just kinda punched me in the mouth.
I did not say I am a libertarian. To be precise, I stated that I have adopted something of a libertarian perspective.
But ‘libertarian’ does not mean anything goes and I don’t believe that people should be allowed to just do what they like. That would be a recipe for disaster, and I don’t see how any mature person could adopt such a view.
If you want to start an argument about cannabis/marijuana, go ahead, because I have a lot to say on the subject.
For one thing, I want to know why f~~~ers like you keep lying about it being ‘harmless’. It is NOT harmless. It causes mental health problems and as I stated the last time this was discussed, I have confronted people who were high on cannabis and got violent.
In fact, an incident that happened just the other day was one of the ‘experiences’ I was going to post about.
A man high on weed (I can tell) started threatening me in the street for absolutely no reason.
If you want to come on here and try and justify your greasy drug-pushing, then go ahead, but don’t expect an easy ride from me.
I know what your drug does to people.
You are nuts. Good luck with that.
You also don’t even have a toe in the lobby of the building of Libertarianism. You are a Trad Con Dinosaur who denies even PRESDENTIAL studies of Marijuana. Marijuana is FAR less harmful to society than Alcohol. Trad Cons like you do not lambaste the legality of it though…
I won’t get into this again with you, the thread where you battled all logic in a Marijuana debate was comical enough.
Please do not say you have ANYWHERE near a Libertarian outlook, as Marijuana legality to a Libertarian is the FIRST litmus test. You do realize we would like to decriminalize all drugs right? And end the Prison Industrial Complex…
You are a Trad Con, own it.
I didn’t raise the cannabis/marijuana issue. YOU did.
Calling me “nuts” is not an argument and won’t convince me to support legalisation of your precious “benign herb”.
Whether alcohol is more harmful or less harmful than cannabis doesn’t help your argument. It’s not a logical argument for or against cannabis legalisation. In fact, if anything, it harms your argument either way because it involves an implicit admission that cannabis is harmful. And let’s say alcohol is more harmful, how does that justify legalising something else harmful? I think your logic is faulty.
I’d like everybody on this forum to look at your reply and see it in all its glory. There you have the mind of a cannabis user – faulty or non-existent logic, hysteria and ad hominen.
You call me “Trad Con”, whatever that’s supposed to mean. I’ve noticed attaching labels to people is an American thing. “Trad Con”, “Red Pill”, “Blue Pill”, “mangina” – I don’t like it. It reflects the shallowness of American society and I regret that we seem to have adopted it in our language here in Britain. In reality, people are more complex than this.
I am not, on the whole, a traditionalist when it comes to women and marriage, etc. For instance, although heterosexual, I have never had so much as a girlfriend, let alone been married. Thus I also don’t have children. So how am I “Trad Con”? I’m clearly nothing of the kind, or if I am, then I need to try harder.
If I were traditionalist, it’s unlikely I would be posting here. On the other hand, I must concede that some aspects of traditionalism probably are essential to the continuation of society. But to acknowledge that there is some good sense in traditionalist views on gender does not make me a traditionalist. Of course, your feeble brain can’t handle nuances like that.
Also – let me repeat – I never said I am a libertarian, but it doesn’t matter as you clearly don’t understand what libertarianism is anyway.
My point about cannabis is that it is a dangerous drug (studies have verified this) that harms mental health and contributes to mental illness. Use of cannabis also correlates with violence, and I have seen people doped up get violent – in fact, just a few days ago I was confronted by one of your doped-up friends who’d taken this “benign herb” you speak of. He didn’t seem very benign to me.
The problem with pro-cannabis advocates is that they want to ignore all the evidence in pursuit of their greasy pleasures. The reason I care about this is because:
1. I want to be able to walk around safely without being threatened and/or assaulted. This is an essential liberty.
2. I don’t want to live in a society where people are doped-up or medicated because they can’t handle life or they want an “escape”. It’s not healthy and it impacts on the rest of us.
3. I don’t want to have to pay for or subsidise the care of other people who have mentally crippled themselves due to their own selfish habits.
Of course, none of this is relevant to you. I’m just a “Trad Con”, right? Whatever.
Having said all that, I am not opposed to legalising cannabis in all circumstances, in all places and at all times. There are circumstances under which legalisation might work to the satisfaction of both of us, but I’m thinking of very specialist circumstances, such as:
– remote, rural areas in North America and elsewhere where ‘local legalisation’ might not have much of an effect on wider society;
– a hypothetical, high-IQ (probably white) society where everybody is sensible and responsible, only a minority of people would bother to partake in cannabis use, and any adverse and harmful consequences can be contained.
One of the problems with libertarianism – especially American libertarianism – is a tendency to try and template on to a very complex society ideas that could only practically work in a society made up of capable people who are willing to take responsibility for themselves. You don’t live in such a society. Contrary to popular perceptions, America, for instance, has a massive welfare state and a very large underclass – mostly black – who are dependent on handouts.
Legalising cannabis would be a disaster, for the people, and a boon for big drug companies and those who profit from the criminal justice industry…ahem, sorry…criminal justice system.
Oh sorry…I’m being a “Trad Con” again. I need to stop that.
I know the present situation presents serious problems – but that’s only because there are people who are stupid enough to want to use cannabis and so prop up a criminal industry. It’s your choice whether you use it or not – but if you do, then please limit the consequences to yourself and take full responsibility. Don’t harm me or others.
Anonymous24The only problem here is you using the term Libertarian to describe your views on any level. You are as far as one can be from being Libertarian.
I already know your delusion about Marijuana, no need to re-hash it. You got overwhelmingly trounced in the thread on the topic. Boxing with quadriplegics is only slightly more engaging than discussing Marijuana legalization with you.
And Laws prop up crime industries, remember Prohibition?
You are literally the only person I have met in my 40 some odd years that has said they have encountered violent stoners. Maybe the problem has been on your end?
Anonymous3OK, let’s take this one point at a time…
The only problem here is you using the term Libertarian to describe your views on any level. You are as far as one can be from being Libertarian.
Well it seems we have a number of problems here. First, in common with most products of the American education system, you can’t read. I have now told you several times that I am not a self-described libertarian. Second, you don’t understand the beliefs of which you speak. Libertarians can be ‘for’ or ‘against’ drug laws and take widely different views on the subject. The problem is that you clearly don’t know what libertarianism is as you are assuming that there can be only one view on the subject when there are at least several possible libertarian positions.
I already know your delusion about Marijuana, no need to re-hash it. You got overwhelmingly trounced in the thread on the topic. Boxing with quadriplegics is only slightly more engaging than discussing Marijuana legalization with you.
Ah, so you have a girly grudge because I disagree with you. That’s why you bring this up out of nowhere.
Question for Keymaster – I thought this was a forum for men, not c~~~s? For a MGTOW forum, there sure is a lot of c~~~y and bitchy behaviour on here. “I beat you in the other thread, so nah-nah-nah-naaaaaah”. “Johnny said that to Billy in the other thread.” It’s like a f~~~ing hen house.
Anyway, I seem to remember that I posted up much the same points and I just got insulted, while you and the other drug-pushers on here posted up memes and stuff about cannabis. You’re obsessed with the subject. It’s your whole lives, it seems. But that’s the way potheads like you argue – you just assume you’re right about everything and you know everything because you smoke f~~~ing pot. Just like a c~~~, in fact.
Just look at what I said above about your argument on alcohol. The status of alcohol has absolutely nothing to do with the question of whether cannabis should be legalised. Even if we accept that alcohol is harmful, it doesn’t follow that we should now legalise something else harmful. Your logic is faulty.
And Laws prop up crime industries, remember Prohibition?
No, I don’t remember Prohibition as I wasn’t alive at the time, but I do agree that prohibiting cannabis and other drugs results in crime. I don’t pretend that prohibiting cannabis is a perfect or faultless solution. I accept it’s a problem, but you choose whether or not to break the law. The crime you speak of exists only because a small minority of people want to take the drug. You can also choose to go and live in an area where local or national government has, in its wisdom, decided either to legalise or decriminalise the drug.
You are literally the only person I have met in my 40 some odd years that has said they have encountered violent stoners.
I highly doubt that. I think you’re just a liar. Most potheads lie about cannabis and try to present a rosy picture – I think this is well-known. Everybody knows that cannabis induces paranoia in many users. If you are who you claim to be – a user – then you would know this. It’s also well-known that some people do become violent when doped-up. Where I live, in Britain, such was the problem with violence associated with cannabis – and also alcohol – that there was even a term for violent users when I was growing up: they were called ‘dope fiends’. Everybody knows about it….except of course, you. You must be pure and innocent and perhaps you live in one of those gated communities where all the dopers are corporate executives and only inhale at weekends.
The reality is different and you need to wake up.
Now, I am fair and I am interested in the truth about this issue, and where I will concede a point to you slightly is that, as far as I’m aware, it’s not been proven there is a precise and direct causal link between cannabis and violent behaviour. All we know is there is a presence of violence when some people use the drug. It could be that the violence is the result of the user’s personality interacting with other problems that the drug causes, such as paranoia.
But the violence is real – and you’re either a f~~~ing liar or you’re very naive and have led a rather sheltered life. My verdict: I think you’re a f~~~ing liar. I think you’re a typical pothead who wants to present a rosy picture of cannabis because it’s a greasy pleasure of yours, and that’s why you Go Postal when somebody like me comes along and stands up to you. All you potheads do it.
Maybe the problem has been on your end?
Yes, you’re right. I should just stop walking around and minding my own business.
Maybe I should stop breathing?
Dickhead.
Anonymous24Violent Potheads… You crack me up Jack, thanks for the laugh. You should stop your daily viewing of Refer Madness as soon as possible. You do realize this is 2016 and not 1936, right?
You are insane, and full of s~~~, good luck with that-
I would argue it is a systematic process: in other words, you don’t suddenly become Red Pill overnight, but rather the Red Pill is a consilience of different experiences and factors, some of which are highly idiosyncratic and personal, that come together to form a ‘totality of awareness’.
Sorry to go back on topic but my Red Pill moment, which was over something quite ordinary actually, was still exactly that – it stopped me dead in my tracks and made me rethink my whole life. I believe many men do experience something like that, sometimes alas while standing in Family Court – their whole world gets torn down around them and their reality changes. For others, it will indeed be a gradual process, an internal amassing of evidence until it can no longer be denied.
If I may be allowed an analogy, studies by (I think it was) the World Council of Churches has shown that the experience of religious conversion is like this: for about 20% of people, it’s a “road to Damascus” sudden realisation, a total 180 on your position. For the other 80%, it’s a gradual thing from study or discussion. This is true even in Evangelical churches that might emphasise the “born again” moment of conversion.
Anonymous3Violent Potheads… You crack me up Jack, thanks for the laugh. You should stop your daily viewing of Refer Madness as soon as possible. You do realize this is 2016 and not 1936, right?
You are insane, and full of s~~~, good luck with that-
Typical pothead:
1. Thinks he knows everything because he smokes pot.
2. Denies there are any issues with pot. It’s just a “benign herb”, so why ban it? Thinks it’s wonderful and everybody should do it.
3. When confronted with counter-arguments, resorts to insults and non sequiturs.
4. Argues that because (according to some studies) alcohol is more harmful than cannabis, that means we should legalise cannabis. Doesn’t understand why this is an illogical argument.
5. Aggressively denies that cannabis causes violence and paranoia, even though almost-everybody who has encountered potheads in any great number can confirm it does. “Hey, don’t look at me like that, maaaaaan.”
6. An absolute bore who is obsessed with the issue of legalisation. Brings it up in every chance he gets, even if the thread topic has nothing to do with it.
If you want to continue with your grim, filthy habit, then make sure the consequences are confined to you and that you have the money/resources to address those consequences without recourse to the rest of us.
Anonymous3Hey f~~~tard,
Below you’ll find some links to discussions about an association between cannabis use and violence. I found these simply by googling link between violence and cannabis [here’s the URL for the search results in the UK: https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=link%20between%20violence%20and%20cannabis%5D
Now, because of the way people like you argue, I know I need to get the sensible disclaimers in now, in advance:
(i). As I’ve stated repeatedly on here, I accept that no precise causal link has been proved between violence and cannabis, only a correlation or association.
(ii). I accept that alcohol causes violence, and is responsible for more violence than cannabis use.
(iii). I also accept (as one of the links below states) that cannabis normally, at least ostensibly, has a calming or sedative effect on users, rather than an activist/aggressive effect (though I don’t accept that equals less violence. I have seen people in the sedative cannabis-induced state become violent).
The point of these links is to show that there is a widely-shared observation that some cannabis users turn violent when using, or just after using, the drug. You will also see support in the below links for the belief that there is an association between cannabis use and pseudo-violent and socially-disordered behaviours, such as paranoia (which I have already mentioned), mood swings, psychological and emotional problems, mental disturbance and mental illness, manic behaviour, and so on.
Here are the links. To remind you, these have been pulled off the first page of a Google UK search at random, by searching using the words, link between violence and cannabis
http://learnaboutmarijuanawa.org/factsheets/aggression.htm
http://sciencenordic.com/association-between-cannabis-use-and-violence
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-new-brain/201603/marijuana-use-increases-violent-behavior
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22455101
Marijuana Use Causes 7-Fold Increased Risk of Violent Behavior
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26961342
https://ncpic.org.au/professionals/publications/factsheets/cannabis-and-aggression/
http://uk.askmen.com/sports/health/the-link-between-weed-and-violence.html
https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/id/357892/rossow_06052014_cannabis%2Buse.pdf
Anonymous24Sorry, we already did this, and you got trounced by MASSES of MGTOW on the topic. Feel free to make a thread on how Marijuana should be illegal, I would love to watch it all land your head again.
Not going to deal with you, all I hear is circus music and see clowns in my head at the same time, not good.
Once again, I have no problem with your views, you are free to have them, just don’t use the term Libertarian to describe them on any level.
Anonymous3Sorry, we already did this, and you got trounced by MASSES of MGTOW on the topic.
Where did that happen?
I’ve replied to you above.
Anybody reading this will see that you can’t respond to my points. I’ve provided evidence and logic for my views and you have no response.
Feel free to make a thread on how Marijuana should be illegal, I would love to watch it all land your head again.
But I’m already stating here that I think cannabis should remain illegal. You’ve already sabotaged this thread with your pothead obsession.
So let’s hear the arguments. Stop arguing like a c~~~ and let’s have at it.
Not going to deal with you, all I hear is circus music and see clowns in my head at the same time, not good.
If you’re not going to deal with me, then why do you keep responding to me, druggie?
You can’t back up your position with arguments. It’s all about pushing a drug on to everybody else.
Once again, I have no problem with your views, you are free to have them, just don’t use the term Libertarian to describe them on any level.
Says who? You?
Who the f~~~ are you to tell me what to do, pothead?
You’re just a pothead. Every time you post on here in support of pot, and if I see it, I will challenge you.
You will continue to post until the moderator of this site determines that your insinuations about members of this board “pushing” pot creates a negative image of this site, is not true, is false accusation and ruinous of the reputation of posters on this site.
I don’t think it will take long.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
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