Being a MGTOW, I will never waste my time on a serious relationship with another woman again, and I assume the same is true for a lot of other MGTOWs. I don’t want to paint MGTOWs with too broad a brush,  but it seems pretty safe to say that that marriage is to a MGTOW what Kryptonite is to Superman. But if this is true and all men “woke up and took the red pill”, as we sometimes wish other men we see suffering would, it seems there would be some very serious consequences. One obvious one would be a vastly reduced birth rate. Not that I’m against this (world is over populated as it is), but mathematical models of population growth show that if the population rate stays below a certain threshold, the population eventually goes to extinction. Moreover, as some portions of the population breed and others don’t, changes in the population’s characteristics occur. From these observations, some interesting questions emerge:

Would the human race be able to keep itself from extinction if all men became MGTOW and if so, how?

If all men being MGTOW would threaten our continued existence as a species, is it perhaps a built in consequence of evolution that we need “blue pill” men?

If “blue pill” men are the only ones procreating what does that say about their offspring? Will the “red pill” men characteristics die off or be marginalized if they don’t reproduce?

Interested in hearing if others have wondered about this and if so, what their thoughts are.

Furries generally aren’t into kids or marriage. It’s not unheard of for people to just go and get sterilized while they’re young as to avoid the kids bullet entirely. Being openly gay isn’t discouraged at all and might even be encouraged in some circles as a way to enjoy sex without dealing with children or the other gender. Males dominate art and literature with most relationships being gay-themed to note the lack of interest in women with small circles of straight men sharing straight art and stories where the rest of the populace doesn’t have to deal with it.

Alternate relationship patterns like swapping and swinging are not taboo, but you are expected to let people know you are into them if they want to get into a relationship with you just to make sure everyone is cool with it. Due to general acceptance of alternate relationship patterns, cheating is usually defined as “I thought we agreed on no swinging you bastard” and not “having sex with someone who isn’t your mate”. Nobody gives anyone else trouble just because they’re single or they look single.

Transgenderism is encouraged in those who want to switch genders due the the lack of breeding. Male to female is often coupled with a sense of shame as they are taking on the lesser sex, but that’s a kink to some people (look up “feminization”). None the less, chicks with dicks have a cult following among gays who are shy and bisexuals. Female to Male is applauded and greatly encouraged to increase the number of men in the world. As to removing the last traces of femininity, transmen have a saying: “hormones are magic!”

Breeding is looked down upon. If you do breed, you are expected to keep your kids the f~~~ away from the adults. In fact, the only times kids are welcome are where they are expressly permitted such as conventions during the day and events geared at children. Bringing your kids to a party will get you booted. Children are typically raised in the fandom and their parents values are passed on to them. It’s not uncommon to see children picking their first fursona around age 6-10 and making a costume to join their parents. The MTGOW translation would be children around 6-10 being taught the hard truths about the world instead with women being broken of any brood-bitch leanings and men being taught to be cautious and wise.

I really think more furries would be MTGOW if they knew about us. Many are already so close it’s scary.

I imagine if all the world went MTGOW it would look like the Furry Fandom. The major difference being that furries step away from the crappy world by creating their own reality while MTGOWs just step away from the crazies and try to find a quiet path in this reality.  

Interesting….I never heard of Furry Fandom before.

One thing you said that caught my attention was that “they create their own reality”, what does that mean? Aren’t they really creating a type of fictional role playing (like “Star Wars”)? I mean they surely can’t go to work dressed as animal characters (maybe except for the guy who works at Chuck E Cheese 🙂 ).

If all men being MGTOW would threaten our continued existence as a species, is it perhaps a built in consequence of evolution that we need “blue pill” men?

I think this is likely to be close to the truth.  We do need blue pill men in order to sustain the species.  If enough of these men abandoned that mentality, we would begin to have serious social problems.  MGTOW is really an elitist position, for society’s leaders.  I know that sounds conceited, but think about the implications of mass MGTOW-type consciousness.  It’s a bit like atheism: it’s good for people with the brains to handle it, but it might be better to let the masses stay dumb and god-fearing, at least for the time being.

Math Ronin wrote:

  If “blue pill” men are the only ones procreating what does that say about their offspring? Will the “red pill” men characteristics die off or be marginalized if they don’t reproduce? 

Almost all of us here will be the sons of blue pill men, so there is no barrier to education down the generations, but for the reasons given above, I suspect MGTOW-type views will always be marginalised, necessarily so.  This stuff is dark magic – it’s not for mass consumption.

Math Ronin wrote:

One obvious one would be a vastly reduced birth rate. Not that I’m against this (world is over populated as it is),

Just a diversion, and not wishing to be awkward, but this annoying ‘over-population’ trope is being repeated all over this forum, yet as far as I can tell there is no evidence to support it.  Over-population in what sense?  A high global population does not equate to over-population.  Resources are abundant.  Problems such as mass starvation, if it truly exists, and other resource problems, are due to the type of socio-economic system existing globally, and possibly also the inability of some racial groups to sustain industrialised societies.  It seems to me this over-population crap gets talked about a lot in Western countries, but developing countries happily continue breeding at very high rates.  Should we whites sacrifice ourselves so that humanity can regress back to Stone Age conditions?  Something to think about.

When men stop pandering to women and giving them a free pass in life, women turn around and actually become good mates. And at that point, men do take care of them.

Math Ronin wrote:

Would the human race be able to keep itself from extinction if all men became MGTOW and if so, how?

The lesbians would have procreate through artificial insemination.

Women would have to actually stand by their words in that they don’t need a man.  They too would go to a clinic to get a clam chowder injection.

Math Ronin wrote:

If “blue pill” men are the only ones procreating what does that say about their offspring? Will the “red pill” men characteristics die off or be marginalized if they don’t reproduce?

In event that these “blue pillers” were the only ones procreating, then the divorce rate would plummet.  If a woman wanted back on the carousel, then she would only have manginas to choose from.

Men would spontaneously become red pill.  They would have aging MGTOW examples to follow.  They would see the way their mothers treat their fathers and seek an alternative.  The only way to shut this down would be to repeal the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution.

I don’t believe that the population numbers would dangerously contract.  If we see (years from now) a pendulum swing in completely the other direction because of trends, such as MGOTW, Japanese Herbivores, MRA, etc, then men would once again be, if not in the driver’s seat, then be able to equally negotiate with women.  The problem is that men would have to be educated from birth in the ways that women manipulate men and politics, or woman would have to be taught real maturity from birth.  Or both.

Just a diversion, and not wishing to be awkward, but this annoying ‘over-population’ trope is being repeated all over this forum, yet as far as I can tell there is no evidence to support it.

The more people there are the more easily they are controlled. When there are more people then there is more competition for jobs, even without technology rendering many of them obsolete. More people also means less space for these people. We mostly congregate in cities now, probably a good thing, but it forces people to reduce their boundaries. More people will take advantage of the ever smaller growing boundaries and do stupid/crazy s~~~. Technology, once again, plays a roll in this with “instant” media(almost all propaganda these days). With more people, and most living in cities,  and ever smaller boundaries it also makes people more reliant on an outside agency to ensure their safety, “freedoms”, access to “necessaries”, while also taking away their abilities to do this themselves, and of course loss of individuality.

Banding together, back when our species was first coming out of caves and were in danger of being killed by about everything on the planet, ensured our safety. It did punish those who went their own way, but at that time it was necessary for survival. In fact throughout our history as a species we have “banded together”, with only few spans of time where individuals were not punished for being so. The difference now being we have won the War against nature and are not in danger of being exterminated, not necessarily as a species(that has been several thousand years according to science) but as different societies. Until recently.

We still have starvation(if the media is even to be believed anymore) occurring in 3rd and 4th world nations. This is most likely due to “old” technology and women still spitting out babies, but then take a look at those nations with the latest technology and how that “footprint” is literally changing the planet. The 1st world nations are also breeding less or breaking even at best.

Perhaps the overpopulation issue turns out to be just too much technology too fast which is forcing the “hive” mentality upon us, whether we wish it or not. Hard to say without really being able to separate the two. Would 3rd and 4th world nations, if given the current technologies, also start to break even or decline in population? Is it just 2nd world nations that are the problem? They are clearly the nations breeding out of control and invading others because of this and forcing their forms of society upon us without our consent.

I believe overpopulation is a problem. But it may very well be that over breeding coupled with technology may be the real issue. Or it might very well be just a 2nd world nation problem that is being forced upon the 1st world nations, while the 3rd and 4th world nations balance themselves out due to Darwinism.

My two cents anyway.

Interesting….I never heard of Furry Fandom before.

One thing you said that caught my attention was that “they create their own reality”, what does that mean? Aren’t they really creating a type of fictional role playing (like “Star Wars”)? I mean they surely can’t go to work dressed as animal characters (maybe except for the guy who works at Chuck E Cheese ).

Well, most Furry Fandom members (they call themselves “Furries” for short) create a fictional animal version of themselves called a Fursona. Sometimes the Fursona is just used to roleplay or make art, however, sometimes you get “lifestylers” who end up trying to be as much like their fictional selves as possible. Lifestylers are often considered weird among furries, especially if they are really into it.

Either way, furries who have fursonas usually reject the nastiness that is reality in favor of a whole lot of daydreaming. They seek out other furries so they can daydream together, swap art, and generally hang out leading to furry communities both in real life and online. In real-life communities it’s very common for them to go by their fursona names as much as possible and some even adopt animal habits like growling or barking. Furry communities online or in real life tend to form “bubbles” where they form their own sort of culture and habits even though the culture typically ends up as a spin on the general theme mentioned in my earlier post.

These community bubbles become their “homes” and they base their perceptions of reality on the culture of the bubble. Being in the bubble for a long time leads to a sort of shared mass illusion of a parallel world where everyone is some sort of toon animal that co-exists just past the everyday world of boring human stuff. Furries still know they’re human and live in a human world, but their minds and hearts are in the toon animal world. A few furries do try to wear ears and tails to work or otherwise around town. They see it as a fun compromise between the two worlds. Some have full costumes they wear on their off time, typically around parks, at conventions, or at furry meet-ups. Most have some sort of animal-themed gear they like to keep around as a symbol of their fursona. Finding a furry with zero gear linked to their favorite character or fursona is super rare.

The furries without fursonas are pretty much no weirder than your average Trekkie or Anime fan, but they tend to not show up in the communities much as they are content to watch cartoons and admire artwork by themselves without all the cooperative daydreaming. You can spot them by the fact that they have the least fantastic names and don’t tend to roleplay. If they do roleplay, they always talk about having “characters” and differentiate them from “fursonas” as they are not their characters in any sense of the word. Their furry gear is all linked to their favorite characters and many have an extensive selection of animated films from all over the world. They generally are also more in-touch with the normal world as they don’t live in the bubble.

Examples of various furry “types”

No Fursona (“Just a fan”): At work he’s Ryan and online he’s Ryan. This guy loves the old Looney Tunes, especially Bugs Bunny. He uses his favorite Bugs Bunny mug at work and his ring tone is a quip from Bugs himself. Online he looks at fan art of Bugs Bunny and talks about restoring the old films.He does not see his fursona self as a “rabbit” (he doesn’t roleplay) nor does he identify with rabbits in general outside of thinking that Bugs is awesome. All his clothes are normal save for one or two Bugs Bunny ties.

Regular Fursona-owning Furry: At work he’s Josh, but online he’s WhiteMoon the wolf. In his off work time he wears a lot of wolf shirts and at work he wears a wolf tie-tack as a personal connection to WhiteMoon. He spends a few hours each day talking in forums and roleplaying as WhiteMoon. Sometimes he spends a little money to have people draw WhiteMoon in various poses. He made a tail that he wears on Halloween and plans to wear it when he finally goes to a furry convention. He can rant and rave about the goings on in his online community and has a slew of beloved and hated artists you have never heard of. His real-life friends tend to call him “wolfie” or “Whitemoon”.

Lifestyler: At work and at home he’s Rheegar Arkaafu. Check his license- he had the name changed. He always wears brown and black to match his otter fursona and would have worn a costume at work if the boss would let him. People compliment his lithe physique. Little do they know he swims three hours a day and eats mostly seafood and veggies like any other otter. He sees himself as an otter taken human shape and seeks other furries so he can feel at home. He owns an expensive otter costume hand made to look just like Rheegar and wears it at every furry meet-up. He never misses a meet! He knows most of the furries in the area personally and proudly proclaims to anyone who will listen that he’s an otter through and through and a “furry for life”. When he’s not working, swimming or hanging with other furries in real life, he’s in a chat room somewhere roleplaying. He can’t masturbate to human porn anymore: it’s all dirty cartoon animals or people in costumes or body paint. A large chunk of his porn stash is art of Rheegar that he commissioned.

We do need blue pill men in order to sustain the species. If enough of these men abandoned that mentality, we would begin to have serious social problems. MGTOW is really an elitist position, for society’s leaders. I know that sounds conceited, but think about the implications of mass MGTOW-type consciousness. It’s a bit like atheism: it’s good for people with the brains to handle it, but it might be better to let the masses stay dumb and god-fearing, at least for the time being….but for the reasons given above, I suspect MGTOW-type views will always be marginalised, necessarily so. This stuff is dark magic – it’s not for mass consumption.

I agree. And you see just this sort of thing in other organisms. Blue pill men are the equivalent of drones, who are just worker bees without stingers used to mate with the queen. They are a necessary evil to keep the colony alive.

and btw, regarding”over-population”, this was just kinda an off the cuff remark based on anecdotal evidence I hear also (although like Bill Burr, I’m not adverse to 50% of the population having to go…LOL). I think a lot of these comments are made in regard to environmental concerns due to the large amount of harmful waste that is exacerbated by a growing population, but that’s not my area of expertise, so I can’t really make a definitive statement one way or the other.

 In event that these “blue pillers” were the only ones procreating, then the divorce rate would plummet. If a woman wanted back on the carousel, then she would only have manginas to choose from. Men would spontaneously become red pill. They would have aging MGTOW examples to follow. They would see the way their mothers treat their fathers and seek an alternative. .. I don’t believe that the population numbers would dangerously contract.

Although this is a hypothetical situation (like “what if politicians stopped lying”..LOL), it is not so far fetched a scenario. We see, for example, the fertility rates in most of the top industrialize nations continually decreasing. Add that fact with a new generation of guys who see that marriage is not an attractive option and voila, you have a substantial red pill population. Whether the population would “dangerously contract” or not, I suppose is anybody’s guess. But maybe it’s a sign that the pendulum will swing the other way and women will have much less power in the future.