Imagine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally.
A man (Fully aware of the MGTOW reality) desires to attempt a long-term relationship with a woman and also have children with her.
The man is not financially supporting the woman, the woman works as much as the man, they or may not share a home.
The man wants his own biological children raised by both himself and the mother.

Now, we cannot call this man’s a “Traditionalist” as he is not working for the woman, he is working for himself and the child; neither does he owe anything to the woman.
Now, we cannot call this man a “NeoMasculanist”, “Feminist”, “Mangina”, “PUA” because this is no longer gynocentric.

What is the name or label of this man?

Again, you owe nothing to the woman, absolutely nothing. This is the ideal end goal of the MRA movement, is it not? So, if this happen, a big IF.

Do MGTOW men call him an idiot? Do MGTOW men call this man a “breeder”? (as one MGTOW has mentioned this…) Do MGTOW men desire this outcome?

What’s your take here or am I missing something here? Is this a “new” man, something yet unlabelled, or is this still considered a Traditionalist man?

Thanks

But f~~~ it, lets do this.

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

magine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally.

Just revoking the laws penalizing men would not lead us into an legally equal society. For that, on a legal standpoint, we would have to ENFORCE the laws on WOMEN the same way we enforce it on MEN. That would be a start.

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

A man (Fully aware of the MGTOW reality) desires to attempt a long-term relationship with a woman and also have children with her. The man is not financially supporting the woman, the woman works as much as the man, they or may not share a home. The man wants his own biological children raised by both himself and the mother.

Ok, so…?

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

Now, we cannot call this man’s a “Traditionalist” as he is not working for the woman, he is working for himself and the child; neither does he owe anything to the woman. Now, we cannot call this man a “NeoMasculanist”, “Feminist”, “Mangina”, “PUA” because this is no longer gynocentric.

Ok, for the sake of argument, let me agree with that, in this specific scenario, the described relationship would not be gynocentric.

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

What is the name or label of this man?

I don’t know. I can’t predict what other may think or do on an hypothetical almost impossible scenario. And what would that matter? Why, if things are apparently “fair” to a man, do we need label that man? How about… individual? Is this a good label for you?

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

Again, you owe nothing to the woman, absolutely nothing. This is the ideal end goal of the MRA movement, is it not? So, if this happen, a big IF.

Well, depends on the MRA you are talking to. The impression I have is that MRA’s are the new tradcons. Where they want women to be “women” (a.k.a children in a women’s body) so men can be “men” (a.k.a slaves). There might be MRA’s that are not like that (NAMRAALT) but I saw more then a few that are. And that doesn’t seem to be the Mgtow mentality, at least not yet. Some of us just want to be left alone, some would like to have a partner, as a true equal, with roles EQUIVALENT to the men’s role, and some goddamn empathy. You are trying to get several different INDIVIDUALS, with several different personal GOALS in life and put us all in one little box. Women, in order to see what a Mgtow would want/need, would have to ACTUALLY TALK to one and show GENUINE EMPATHY. But that’s a lot of work and would require threat man like, well, I don’t know… HUMANS?!?

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

Do MGTOW men call him an idiot? Do MGTOW men call this man a “breeder”? (as one MGTOW has mentioned this…) Do MGTOW men desire this outcome?

I don’t know. If you want to know that you would have to ask EVERY SINGLE MGTOW individually. You want a fit all answer? There is none.

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

What’s your take here or am I missing something here?

Yes, you are treating us like we have the same hive mind women have. Which we don’t. And if Mgtow ever become like that, I am pretty sure that the very men that did Mgtow gains strength would migrate to another label, and we would start again. Because we are men, and that is what men do. We build, and through discussion we grow.

ForgeHammerAnvil wrote:

Is this a “new” man, something yet unlabelled, or is this still considered a Traditionalist man?

Don’t know, how YOU would call this man? Why label him, at all?

And what is the purpose of this post anyway?

Im confused…

What you are saying is if a mgtow riding a nawalt unicorn while hunting for a purple squirrel is now real ….. what would we call him?

Im going with Sedrick

Im trying hard not to sniff this.

Imagine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally.

That’s a big damn hypothetical you have there.

What is the name or label of this man?

Who cares? Why do you need to have a label for an imaginary potential in an utterly hypothetical scenario.

Work on fixing the laws first. Then worry about what you’re going to call things.

Im going with Sedrick

It is decided then. If this man EVER exist, we will call him Sedrick. Regardless of what his actual name is.

I am glad we solved that out. I was worried for a moment…

You have taken my honest questioning as if I am a detractor; this wasn’t my intent at all. I am a curious, period.

I did not classify you all as a Hive Mind, I never did. I asked for the opinion of the different men here; I have your opinion, thanks, now to the next guy and the next guy. No harm to it.

And the end of the day with your perspective this scenario is inconceivable. Good, thanks, that’s your answer, thanks.

Now to your question about what I am talking about. I look into a possible distant future where we’ve arrived at fair laws between the sexes. And all these old concepts, ways of interaction and these debates will have been things of the past.

Am I an optimist? Yes.
Is this wishful thinking? Possibly
Is this the optimal scenario? I think it is; and so I am looking into this.

Do I disagree with MGTOW? No, not at all, I’ve been going on my own for about 8 years now; and all of this has weighted on my aspirations of having children in the future.

I still want children, you can fault me for that. And I am not of the opinion of going on the other side of the world to impregnate a woman, neither do I want to use technology to do so. I want my children, if this happen, to have a father and a mother. If the father and mother are separate; let it be, that’s fine. So with that, this my hypothetical scenario where the laws okay.

You may ask, we’ll, haven’t you seen what women can do and how all woman are. Yes, yes, I have. But we also have to remember that MGTOW is a philosophy vastly promoted by broken men and men who were flushed in the gutter from the system; I am one of these broken man. (I don’t want to all place you under the same umbrella, so you are all different and whatever you are, and I consider myself broken); but hey, I got to generalize at some point. But If I have to clarify this again, I am speaking only for myself and see all your MGTOWs as different men, each with different ideas on life. So with that said,  Our view is vastly negative when it comes to the potential in women. I do not hate women, but I keep my interactions to a minimum when it comes to interacting with them; I usually stay at bay. So that model of the Father/Mother/Son/Daughter didn’t work for us; but it did for some.

I’m a moderate.

We’ll, I would at least hope that I can bring such topics up in MGTOW and not simply called what I mentioned above: a Traditionalist, an Idiot or a Breeder. I see a gap, an anomaly, I question, period.

And again, this is not to berate you. But ever since that Roosh V incident a few weeks back. There’s been an increase in “assertion” stance in the MGTOW community. And it seems that if we do not toe the line with the rest; we are, yes, NOT a True MGTOW.

I’m sincere in my enquiry, if that makes me a false MGTOW, then I am a false MGTOW; while living the MGTOW principles and having lived through certain horrors illustrated by many contributing members. Go figure.

People got to remember that we are again not all coming from the same place. Some of us are old, some of us are young. Some of us got divorced, some of us haven’t. Some of us are new to MGTOW and some of us have been here for a long time. And again with this new “activism” going on in MGTOW since that Roosh V incident; some of us are more active, while some of us are more laid back. I openly share my philosophy to the people I meet in my daily life, will never marry, keep my interaction with women to a minimum and aspire to be fully self-reliant, Am I not a MGTOW? We’ll, apparently, to some I am not. For those people, what can I say to you, nothing, because this is no longer a question of debate and reason; it’s a question of holding on to a growing ideology.

I have grown within this sphere; and I am questioning it. What’s wrong with that? Or are we no longer allowed to question it? We’ll because I still want children I’m not a MGTOW? Man, give me a break at the end of the day. But hey, at the moment I am no longer replying only to you BadKan, but as a general reply to everyone and what I see at the moment; and yes, I admit having faults in my understanding and yes I admit not having all the knowledge, and yes I haven’t read every material provided within MGTOW. Guilty, Guilty, Guilty.

Now with this out of the way, can my question be considered please and I not be suspected of malicious intent. Yes, maybe that does make me delusional to still aspire for something with a woman, and with all the knowledge shared here, any man would be crazy to jump on board with a woman for the long run. I’m not after this NAWALT, but sensibility in the question I don’t fully cancel out; to each his own, I do my own investigation in life, I’ve had my own experiences.

And this additional comment before I finish. Before MGTOW turns into this solid policy that you must do this otherwise you are not a True MGTOW. Remember that you have a lot of injured men who are coming here seeking relief; belittling them or placating them with this and that for not being outspoken about the issue in public. Relax people, I don’t know when it became policy that we had to participate in the world like this; MGTOW was about detaching yourself from all of this; and if you do decide to go forward out into the world and be an active agent; all power to you, I support you. But hey, I’m conflating my initial topic with something else here.

I’m just venting now.

But hey, thanks for the indulge; and if you want to berate more for pleasures sake; go ahead.

If you desire to be involved with a woman for the purposes of creating offspring, then have at it, I’d not judge you.

You can call yourself MGTOW, I’m not some sort of label enforcer, you could call yourself the Duchess of Cranberry Pancakes too for all I would care.

Just be aware that getting involved with western women is alike to tight rope walking over a lava pit. Have fun, but no one here will want to hear anything about it when she pushes you into your doom.

One question I have for you:

Can you begin to imagine the war that would bring this sort of change?

It won’t happen peacefully as wo-men won’t give this sort of control up without a war.

Women are not able to control themselves and that’s why …. throughout history ….. they have been kept under lock & key.

Your world assumes wo-men will have some sort of psychological change where they can be equal and reasoned with.

I just don’t see that happening.

Another reason is that due to the bias against men men get their kids stripped away from them by women and then the courts.