Firstly, I’m on-board with the notion that marriage in western countries is a train wreck for men in many ways. I don’t plan on marrying anytime soon if ever. This problem is further compounded by the quality of character ( or lack there of) of most women whom most of us find attractive.

However, someone needs to produce the next generation, it’s not a bad thing to have a legacy of some kind. The family is one of the most important institutions that have allowed us to become more ethical and intellectually adept individuals. Can anyone argue that single parent households produce inferior progeny? The numbers of poverty, illegitimacy, and incarceration do not lie.

So f~~~ marriage, I’m on-board, but do we want to completely remove our DNA from the gene pool? If you have kids the way to do it is with TWO parents, a MAN and a WOMAN. I would probably advocate a common law marriage of some kind at this point. But beyond societaly speaking, there is a genetic and biological component to this. Obviously the instinct of all species is to breed, and we should not be subverted solely by instincts, but they are still often VERY useful, and can in some situations be more useful than logic, and rationality. I could make examples, but I’m putting end caps on this.

I know the members here are logical and will thoughtfully give their opinions on these questions in a way that will allow us to flesh this out, in a way that their counterparts never would. Thanks in advance.

-Subkon

It’s a good topic. But it is a mistake to assume MGTOW don’t breed – but it’s also an easy to overlook. Take a peek at the FAQ (top under the about menu) where it is explained to those who think MGTOW is some kind of “dead end” to the next generations.

Beyond what it explained there, paternity fraud is RAMPANT. I have personally impregnated two females in my life. There was nothing I could about their decision to abort. But I do know one of them wishes she didn’t. With zero parental rights by law (the reality for western men) the only water-tight option is surrogacy. Pay one woman for her egg. Pay another to birth the child and neither of them can claim to be “the mother”.

IT”S NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THE LEGACY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. NOT ANY MORE.

Women have over-leveraged and the days are coming to an end. In this society, people like Kim Kunt-trashian are held up as models of celebrity. Toronto Canada has a crack head mayor. JAYZ shows up to public events looking totally disinterested in being there. He assumed the laziest of postures, no friendly smile or presentation, even his “fashion show” is women with holes in their clothes looking like holocaust victims. Chris Brown received a Grammy — almost immediately after beating the s~~~ out of Rhianna — in front of thousands and millions of screaming female fans.

AND YOU WANT TO CONTINUE THIS S~~~??

A woman asked me at a Christmas party: “how come you’re not married? Why don’t you have any kids?”

I said “how do you know I don’t? Even I can’t be completely sure”.
It took her almost 30 seconds to realize what I just said, and she almost started to laugh uncomfortably.
But she understood. Then I told her exactly what I told you. She actually agreed and thought it was very sensible.

I AM A MAN GOING IS OWN WAY. I will not contribute to this s~~~. I will not even subscribe to cable TV and turn on my TV as long as they insist on featuring feminists like Anita Sarkeesian… instead of a talented 5 year old girl who can play the violin. THAT Is more like the society that I would be more willing to have children in. I’m not even the only MGHOW who feels this way, but I can’t speak for others.

“The next generation” is not your concern or responsibility anymore.

You can’t “decide” to have children or raise them properly – NO MATTER HOW GREAT A FATHER YOU ARE. But I also know that I can bang a female and use a condom and when I go home, she can (and may) use the contents of that condom to fertilize herself. And I will never know. This s~~~ is LEGAL. So is paternity fraud and lying about being birth control. You can’t decide to be a father and you can’t decide NOT to be a father. So why would you give a f~~~? Why would you give a f~~~ in a society where real success and celebrity is base on f~~~ed up values? Why would you CARE about fathering kids who can make millions by turning themselves into Miley Syphilis? The entire society is in the s~~~ter. And NO… she can’t have my sperm or my money, unless I can contribute to raising that child PROPERLY. You can’t even teach your children discipline or say “no” without it being “abuse”. You can’t even control your own money, because denying a female access to your credit cards is “abuse” now.

F~~~. THAT. S~~~. RIGHT. IN. THE . ASS.

…. and enjoy the decline.

“What about creating the next generation?” is not a valid question when you can have no say in the matter.

The “next generation” comes from the garbage can now.

And “breeding” is not the highest pinnacle of success a man can achieve.
There are other much more valuable things men can aspire to. That’s the beauty of it all.

“Beyond what it explained there, paternity fraud is RAMPANT. I have personally impregnated two females in my life. There was nothing I could about their decision to abort. But I do know one of them wishes she didn’t. With zero parental rights by law (the reality for western men) the only water-tight option is surrogacy. Pay one woman for her egg. Pay another to birth the child and neither of them can claim to be “the mother”. ___KeyMaster___

– This is an excellent point, and rest assure I will throw it many liberal femizani’s faces in the future. “Legal” abortions should absolutely require the signature of BOTH parents. I don’t expect this to happen in the current political climate, but the “it’s a woman’s body argument” is a pure piece of trash. It obviously takes two people to procreate therefore not giving the father any input is totalitarian  to men.

“IT”S NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THE LEGACY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. NOT ANY MORE.” ___KeyMaster___

It’s actually my responsibility to decide what my responsibilities are.

“I AM A MAN GOING IS OWN WAY. I will not contribute to this s~~~. I will not even subscribe to cable TV and turn on my TV as long as they insist on featuring feminists like Anita Sarkeesian… instead of a talented 5 year old girl who can play the violin. THAT Is more like the society that I would be more willing to have children in. I’m not even the only MGHOW who feels this way, but I can’t speak for others.”  ___KeyMaster___

Agreed, I’ve opted out of the cable TV and MSM culture log ago. Nearly 15 years. Simply Anita Sarkessian being featured on TV would not do it alone, I didn’t even know who she was before I heard about her on a MGTOW channel. I do know that the overall message is VERY anti-male.

“The next generation” is not your concern or responsibility anymore.”

“You can’t “decide” to have children or raise them properly – NO MATTER HOW GREAT A FATHER YOU ARE. But I also know that I can bang a female and use a condom and when I go home, she can (and may) use the contents of that condom to fertilize herself. And I will never know. This s~~~ is LEGAL. So is paternity fraud and lying about being birth control. You can’t decide to be a father and you can’t decide NOT to be a father. So why would you give a f~~~? Why would you give a f~~~ in a society where real success and celebrity is base on f~~~ed up values? Why would you CARE about fathering kids who can make millions by turning themselves into Miley Syphilis? The entire society is in the s~~~ter. And NO… she can’t have my sperm or my money, unless I can contribute to raising that child PROPERLY. You can’t even teach your children discipline or say “no” without it being “abuse”. You can’t even control your own money, because denying a female access to your credit cards is “abuse” now.

F~~~. THAT. S~~~. RIGHT. IN. THE . ASS.</p>” ___KeyMaster___

While I agree with your sentiment, I think your perspective on this is a tad myopic. I have a friend who is a blue pill man who is married who has probably the most datable woman I have met in recent times.  Not surprisingly she steered him towards marriage. She’s pretty intelligent, and hate the MSM, doesn’t watch TV, hates liberals and thinks feminists are c~~~s. She takes care of their son and works part time. I will admit, even considering all of this I have seen random bitch sessions out of her. Not being shy or scared of women at all, I called her out on it. She admitted I was right. I will be watching them, to see how their marriage plays out. Hell Paul Joseph Watson is married, and he has the video in the “Watch” section. He’s also married to a Chinese woman.

Just because you have kids does not mean they are completely doomed to traverse the one-way path of Milely Cyrus style depravity. Home schooling can be done some ignorant women can be reasoned with, I have also heard that non-western women are much less bitchy.  Your points of not being able to disciple children do not fall on deaf ears. I know the government hates home schooling and CPS will use it in conjunction with any other bs to pay you a visit, but the more you have the government as a part of your life the greater the chance of this.

I don’t think all kids can easily make millions by turning themselves into “Miley Syphilis,” but I will use that name, thanks.

The society is in the s~~~ter for sure. I do not believe in only living for my pleasures, I think we need to also think about the environment (not in a climate change sense) that we leave behind. To only worship our own ego and be concerned with our own pleasures is not an ideology that I identify with. I obviously don’t want to submit to a crazy c~~~ who only wants my money either. I don’t even know ANY woman that I would consider having kids with anyhow, most are shallow and the complete definition of what MGTOW casts them as. I don’t believe EVERY woman is like this however.  I won’t deny that many of them are VERY cold hearted. Even girls that my friends have been with for years flirt with me heavily and control them with their golden vagina. Still breeding is important.

Any articles on the man being charged with abuse for denying a woman his credit card? I googled it, and came up with jack s~~~, perhaps it was the wrong search phrase.

I appreciate all of your insights on the subject, and the content on MGTOW has greatly increased my awareness. I guess I will have to make sure I ALWAYS flush that condom too!

It’s actually my responsibility to decide what my responsibilities are.

Aware of what you mean. But when it comes to “the next generation”, that’s where you can’t decide. Unless you pay one women for her egg and the other to carry it and neither can claim to be “the mother”. Only then you can decide how responsible you wish to be for the next generation. But the law says you have no agency, so it’s not your responsibility no matter how much you decide it is.

Subkonshis wrote:

It obviously takes two people to procreate

That’s also a common misconception. It doesn’t take two. It only takes one deceitful lying bitch and no man can afford to overlook that: http://mgtow.com/video/spermjacking

You’ve got women scheming behind their husbands backs on daytime talk shows and 97% of them openly encourage lying to get pregnant.

http://www.mgtow.com/video/wendy-williams-teaches-women-to-trap-men-into-fatherhood/

And then there’s this s~~~ pumped into their heads in TV commercials

Thats’ not a tad myopic. It’s a whole bunch of psychotic. The responsibility of the next generation born that way can be yours if you insist. Thankfully, “breeding” is not the highest pinnacle of success we (as men) can possibly achieve. I’ve impregnated 2 different women myself (that I am aware of) and birthing this website (for example) was much more difficult than ejaculating in a female. That was easy. But the decision and responsibility to raise the next generation was 0% up to me and I couldn’t stop them from aborting. So you can see where my response came from.

When paramedics and firemen are trained in disaster response, the primary thing they are trained to do is to protect themselves first. The movie depiction of a fireman ignoring his own safety and recklessly charging into a burning building …is a Hollywood myth. A real fireman will tell you that the reason he will not do that is because the job is dangerous enough for all concerned from the start. Doing this risks making him a casualty that will then create a risky problem for his comrades. Not only will he not be able to help them do the job anymore, he may become part of the risk and increase it in the process.

So, in regards to the next generation, I believe that the most responsibility I could have ever have had for it is 50%. I am not completely convinced that I have a responsibility to reproduce. The message that I constantly hear blasted at me in the MSM is about ‘reproductive choice’…usually a woman’s. Why is reproduction a ‘choice’ for her and a ‘responsibility’ for me? But taking that message on its face, I would say that all choices have a responsibility attached to them. You make a choice and you are responsible for the consequences of it. Therefore, on the premise that we are all equal, and on the premise that none of us can choose to reproduce alone regardless of how responsible we are, then responsibility cannot be assigned 100% to any one person. I limit my responsibility to 50% unless by some mechanism I get more than 50% of the control of the choice. Responsibility and control cannot be unequally distributed in any fair relationship.

The other 50% is someone else’s responsibility. I have made all the choices necessary in life to responsibly be able to reproduce. I have qualified myself by being responsible in decisions about my health, my education, my career, my ability to set an example… and have arrived at a place where I am very well positioned to shoulder my 50% of the responsibility of reproducing. But for all the correct decisions I’ve made, and all the effort and sacrifices I’ve made, that other equally responsible person has not yet appeared. The gender that should have produced that person has failed to do so.

So, what are my options here. I can either ignore the reality and reproduce with one of the irresponsible people who is available (equally short sighted), or accept the reality and be a mgtow. Mgtow was not the first choice for most of us, and likely not the most attractive choice… until the option for the best and most attractive choice was eliminated from the available options by the gender who was responsible for producing it. I am not a mgtow because it’s the best option. I am a mgtow because it’s the only rational option remaining after feminism destroyed the best one.

My offer to that gender is this: I do not believe that either marriage or divorce is valid grounds for the forced transfer of cash or any other financial asset. Feminists have forced down my throat the message that women are as capable as I am, so I no longer accept that I should be expected to produce assets for them. I believe that the choice for reproducing cannot be made alone by any one person, and so then the responsibilities involved in reproducing should be similarly distributed 50-50 when two people make that choice. The costs of children, whatever they are, should only be applied to any man as 50% of the total cost of those children.

To women: auditions are available daily. Minimum qualifications are that you produce 100% for yourself (forever) and 50% for any children we have for as long as is required for them to become adults and produce 100% for themselves. Next qualification is that the responsibility for holding up your end of a healthy adult relationship is 50% hers and this cannot be transferred or otherwise reduced. Last qualification is that the benefit of our relationship, whatever it is, belongs only 50% to her.

So far, a gender of 3 billion has not delivered even a single one who qualifies for this path to ‘equality’ with me. This is the reason why I am not contributing to the next generation. I am not at fault for the circumstances being what they are, and I won’t apologize for calling them what they are. When the other gender gets serious enough about responsibly reproducing to actually be responsible for themselves and for their share of the burden of reproducing, I’ll still be open to the idea…

BrainPilot wrote:
I understand your concern for the next generation. Only a completely short sighted person would ignore that whole concern. But as an individual man, I have a responsibility to take care of myself, lest I become a burden to someone else. This is not for selfish reasons, it’s for rational ones.

BrainPilot nails it. Besides, I believe the human race will not die off because everyone stops breeding. That ain’t gonna happen. I can live with any twinges of guilt because I don’t have any kids running around out there. Others have done a good job of keeping the supply up.

The reverse is much harder — we CAN’T just get a few women and breed a whole world of MGTOWs.  Therein my thesis that males have a reproductive disability.  It doesn’t mean we are inferior – except to the extent that reproduction in any controlled sense, where we can actually raise and teach our offspring, is many many times harder than it is for any fertile-yet-ignorant, irresponsible, useless females with NO qualifications, who can crap out a dozen kids at a moment’s notice.

If I had one long-term goal for MGTOW beyond individual freedom, it would be to enable reproductive balance.  Ideally, through some sort of artificial means — give every male, at birth, the ability to reproduce on his own, raise his own kids, etc.  Now THAT would be true equality.

Sure she is a woman and there is a lot of s~~~ i have to put p with but when it comes to educations she’s suprinsingly traditionnal and wants me to be the man and take the decisions.

Her mum came the other day and started shouting at her telling her to cook and clean because that’s what a good wife does, if she wants to keep me around.

Women will be women but there ARE subtle differences.

Keeping away from women isn’t for me, to me MGTOW is about realising you’re on your own and not expecting anything from women.