With MGTOW, I define my own masculinity. Part of that is sexual dominance. I also embrace the female definition of femininity, provided a women can communicate what she wants. This question is easily answered from the perspective of a submissive women. My inquiries among submissive women in the BDSM community lead me to believe that such a women views this submissive state as pleasant, because it clears her head of thought. Surprisingly, this is the same for male submissives and in part why submissives find so much stress relief in BDSM related activities in a safe and sane environment. Along with a lot of other information I’m inclined to believe sexual dominance or submission is not a gender-defined trait, but an inherent trait of an individual regardless of gender.

Using that frame of reference, what does MGTOW make of sexual dominance or submission? It would be extremely shortsighted to view female submission as “the natural order of things” and male submission as something deviant or feminism-induced. Sure, some dominants (male or female) may have feminist or MRA / PUA agendas, just as well as some subs might fake interest into (soft) BDSM to progress on the carrousel. But those people are really the minority, and as a whole I’d say the online BDSM community is pretty informed on gender based social movements and takes very varied stances on gender issues. MGTOW is merely critical on traditional relationships while BDSM relationships are far from orthodox.

I’d dare to say people in tune with their own gender identity and sexual kinks or fetishes are more confident to step outside of social expectations at large. Being free to generalize, couples having a BDSM lifestyle are happier then vanilla couples. As a dominant with a fetish for flogging young and smooth asscheeks, I can relate to that statement.

So, in short:

• Sexual dominance is not an exclusively male or female trait
• People having crazy sex outside of traditional relationships are happier

While I refuse to go PUA with 50 Shades of Grey nonsense, BDSM just strikes me as a relevant dynamic in more modern relationships. It’s like a f~~~ton of people “got it” and started having meaningfull relationships off the grid. There’s no official registration/legislation and relationships vary from one night stands to lifetime commitments.

There must be MGTOW that are into BDSM, dominant or submissive. Perhaps nobody feels inclined to out himself publicly here, but any view from a practitioner that went MGTOW is greatly appreciated.

The holder of the safe word is always dominant. Everything else is self delusion and silly clothes.

And since someone mentioned 50 Shades of Grey, the ideal ending for that story should be that the bimbo takes the rich guy to court for sexual harassment, assault, battery and rape and takes him for two billion dollars. Then we all find out who was really in control from the beginning.

The holder of the safe word is always dominant.

That implies there is always a holder of a safeword, but that’s a SSC (Safe, Sane and Consentual) directive while many people play using RACK (Risk Aware Consentual Kink) dynamics that may or may not incorporate a safeword or completely predefined boundaries. Guess it’s picking the lesser evil here: increased risk of a rape accusation (RACK) or diminished “real” expression of sexual dominance (SSC).

Then we all find out who was really in control from the beginning.

Especially within RACK dynamics! However, consent being given, no matter in what form, is not legally binding in most countries. With the propagation of 50 Shades bulls~~~ lots of cupcakes suddenly decide they are submissives hoping to attract a male dominant via lizard brain manipulation tactics.

Personally, I don’t see any issue with being a MGHOW and practicing any role in BDSM  – either as a dom or a sub. After all, MGTOW central idea is for men to discover and experience their own personal way. As you mentioned, submission is gender neutral. If being a dominant is your way, it is what it is. Same if you are a submissive.

As a practitioner, my concern is the newbies inspired by the 50 Shades of BS. There are a multitude of BDSM relationships, and not all include sexual intercourse or rough behavior – but Hollywood and porn tell us the opposite. Many people will get hurt and others will go to jail because the scenes will go out of control when newbies try to recreate the scenes from the book / movie without common sense or communication.

Since I never practiced as part of a community (I lived in conservative Latin America until recently), I am unaware of the different acronyms and philosophies used in the US, but one thing I always told my  submissive was that she needed to tell me her limit. The safe word I established was basically to let me know she was reaching her limits and that it was time for me to release the ropes a little bit or even end the session. Sometimes I had to end the session on my own because the sub was too eager to please. I don’t deal with physical punishment besides spanking, so I only have to worry about breathing and possible nerve pressure points.

The holder of the safe word is always dominant.

That implies there is always a holder of a safeword, but that’s a SSC (Safe, Sane and Consentual) directive while many people play using RACK (Risk Aware Consentual Kink) dynamics that may or may not incorporate a safeword or completely predefined boundaries. Guess it’s picking the lesser evil here: increased risk of a rape accusation (RACK) or diminished “real” expression of sexual dominance (SSC).

Then we all find out who was really in control from the beginning.

Especially within RACK dynamics! However, consent being given, no matter in what form, is not legally binding in most countries. With the propagation of 50 Shades bulls~~~ lots of cupcakes suddenly decide they are submissives hoping to attract a male dominant via lizard brain manipulation tactics.

All of that you just said… that’s even worse than a safe word. You’ve acronymed the power, danger, fear and excitement right out of it. When I was a kid we used to ride our bikes down gravel hills, play in mud and swim in drainage ditches. Now kids have “play dates” and wear anti-bacterial helmets and that, by comparison, sounds like more excitement than what you just said. Anyone who thinks that is “BDSM” is totally delusional. Sorry.

Real bondage and domination today would be considered a crime. Whatever you people are doing, including the japanese rope bondage, is just theatrics. To call this stuff bondage and domination would be the same as suggesting that visiting a prison where you know you can simply leave at any time is the psychological and emotional equivalent of serving a life sentence.

But hey, if fooling yourself gets you off, more power!

I understand Doc isn’t a practitioner so does not get any excitement from BDSM. That’s fine, I won’t be offended by a vanilla viewpoint regarding BDSM as delusional. In fact “just theatrics” is a description I am completely comfortable with. I agree that within BDSM, a “total power exchange” is complete rubbish and BDSM does not include any exchange of real power. All power is given through consent, or we are indeed talking about a crime.

The point about “play dates” as kids is a spot on comparison of SSC and RACK. But as a kid, didn’t you make up names for the games you played?

Not all of those games were as safe and parental-approved, there might not have been supervision, and when I dig hard hard enough I’m sure I can even find some mild sexual innuendo’s in early pre-teen years. I can tell you that for a practitioner there is excitement in such games still, and I still regard them as games still. Just to be sure you understand the “equivalent of a lifetime sentence” isn’t something I would aspire to recreate as an experience at all. Just to be concise on this point.

About safewords: I only feel these are needed with roleplay, to differenciate between acting the play and true communication. Again, you can view this as theatrics indeed, and imagine the director yelling “cut!”.

Casquetero, The acronyms you are not familiar with are helpfull when communicating with people not invested in your personal kink. I’m mainly involved with an online community where acronyms help to indicate a number of common kinks and practices. They are far from required to play games. I’d say your description of your dom-sub relationship sounds pretty sane.

As a practitioner, my concern is the newbies inspired by the 50 Shades of BS. There are a multitude of BDSM relationships, and not all include sexual intercourse or rough behavior – but Hollywood and porn tell us the opposite. Many people will get hurt and others will go to jail because the scenes will go out of control when newbies try to recreate the scenes from the book / movie without common sense or communication.

Exactly. Communication. This is where I feel BDSM relationships differ from traditional ones because communication is not just important, it is absolutely required to keep sessions enjoyable. That goes for all genders, top, bottom, straight, gay, it doesn’t matter. But once a female is involved, she must be honest and upfront about what she wants, clearly communicate it in a concise, non-emotional way. I feel this is a mechanic that mat be helpfull in dealing with the opposite gender. Part of my enjoyment is that a sub would regularly check in on her own accord, and we both get to be upfront about our needs and desires. Do you think practitioners are more in tune with those base desires, their nature, and can therefore better differenciate between those and whatever society tells them they should want?

MGTOW views women who are naturally inclined to be submissive towards men, and vice versa.

1st off, I never needed or used “toys”, it’s in my NATURE to be dominant over women, especially during sex, I couldn’t imagine it any other way, We’re stronger, they’re weaker, what other way would it go? Seriously how does a Man be dominated if he’s the stronger of the two? Ahhhh weak mind, weak spirit, MANGINA! Strong spirit, weak mind, FEMINIST!

You know,  for several years in an executive position I feel that I need a discharging. BDSM helps me with that.

Met on site (Kovla) with one woman, who is also in a theme of BDSM. So several times a month we meet and realize our fantasies.