http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2001/02/mgtow-manifesto.html

I see the MGTOW sign symbol there, but what is MGTOW now seems to change.  Anyone know what happened?  Was it Herbivore phenomenon that put a spin on it?  I don’t see much in the way of “instilling feminism in women” and I see much more avoiding women to various degrees.  So, anyone know what may of happened?  I see this change has caused RooshV to get irate about it, or at least some writers on his site.

I would suggest any man who is thinking about MGTOW, who hasn’t seen the manifesto, read it, because it will come up and be quoted as what MGTOW means.

Why in the hell do people keep trying to make MGTOW into a movement.  Let’s help guys who need guidance but as a political movement. Yeah you tried doing that. As we all know the whole MRA route really worked.  So f~~~ off with your MRA picket signs.

Seems like a decent manifesto for 15 years ago considering what was going on. I think you discovered a gem and may want to archive it for historical reasons. Considering how fast things move nowadays. Why in the hell do people keep trying to make MGTOW into a movement. Let’s help guys who need guidance but as a political movement. Yeah you tried doing that. As we all know the whole MRA route really worked. So f~~~ off with your MRA picket signs.

I believe “movement” ends up being used as a term to describe a group of people moving in a certain direction, that seems to have some commonality and ends for themselves.  Due to this commonality, it is called a “movement”.  I say MGTOW has elements of this.  There is men networking and coordinating, sharing of information, and thoughts and doing things that have an impact on society (see Herbivores of Japan).  It is done, not by proactively coordinating, but thoughts appealing to individual men, who then join in the conversation and do, because they see it is of value.  Not all movements in society are political, but it seems that original one wanted it to be political and tried to change the social structure also.

I do find it worth mentioning, because you see it pop up as what MGTOW is, when reported by those not connected, and it has a historical context of where things started.

While I’ve got you here Richard, let me say I liked your YouTube video with the bible verses. Good stuff. I’m gonna pull some of those on my mangina bro in law, who has recently gone all churchy.

Use it for defensive purposes.  If he is being churchy and tradcon, there is going to be a problem.  If he keeps bringing up natural family on you, you can also drop this one on him:

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.” – Luke 14:26

There are things of higher value than normal family patterns in life.  In the case of “hating your own life” I take that as a way to say you aren’t going to buy into the social patterns where they will game you for concern of personal loss, and threats of death, if you don’t comply.  I would say a free man will calculate if something may even cost his own life, and do risks, to do something greater.  To not be willing to even risk one’s life, and to have that as something that can be risks, means you aren’t really free.  Idea, as I see it, isn’t to mindlessly risk one’s life, but do do it, as needed.  I wish I can recall what movie I saw where there was a scene where this was discussed.

Please.

If such a thing existed it would be this:

Don’t give women anything.

That is all.

Everything else is situational and subjective.

 I believe “movement” ends up being used as a term to describe a group of people moving in a certain direction, that seems to have some commonality and ends for themselves. Due to this commonality, it is called a “movement”. I say MGTOW has elements of this. There is men networking and coordinating, sharing of information, and thoughts and doing things that have an impact on society (see Herbivores of Japan). It is done, not by proactively coordinating, but thoughts appealing to individual men, who then join in the conversation and do, because they see it is of value. Not all movements in society are political, but it seems that original one wanted it to be political and tried to change the social structure also. I do find it worth mentioning, because you see it pop up as what MGTOW is, when reported by those not connected, and it has a historical context of where things started.

I didn’t mean you personally but I’m trying to make a point that the MRA movement failed and repacking it and selling it under another name will not work. A lot of the people who turned MGTOW into to MGTOW 2.0 did it to cause a movement. I believe all of them did to help men but most of former MRAs are trying to tilt the ship so to say. Especially those who are currently criticizing it because it is getting an influx of new members. Men who are still getting chemically burned and trying to swallow the red pill. Which is adding an entirely new light to MGTOW and the way it operates. The word movement is so often associated with organized movements with figureheads it would be hard to differentiate from others who use the word. Someone could pop up and say I’m the leader of the movement and popular media would take their word for all MGTOWs thoughts like Roosh is doing right now. Except he is doing them under a new term.

Does this really matter I guess it depends on who you talk to. Those going their own way would just make up another term or just ignore it all. I guess when I type it out it doesn’t really matter. I just like to analyze things. But I defiantly disagree with the word movement because it implies there is a set agreed direction. Labeling things is a double edged sword.

The word movement is so often associated with organized movements with figureheads it would be hard to differentiate from others who use the word. Someone could pop up and say I’m the leader of the movement and popular media would take their word for all MGTOWs thoughts like Roosh is doing right now. Except he is doing them under a new term. Does this really matter I guess it depends on who you talk to. Those going their own way would just make up another term or just ignore it all. I guess when I type it out it doesn’t really matter. I just like to analyze things. But I defiantly disagree with the word movement because it implies there is a set agreed direction. Labeling things is a double edged sword.

I was try to reach for a term that would fit what MGTOW is functioning as.  I had proposed “network” for it, to be able to show interconnectivity and protocols and so on, and autonomy.  Idea here is to try to understand.  And I know how “movement” is a loaded term, so I was trying to go with a less loaded definition.  It isn’t a term I would use normally, but do touch on sometime, depending on the context, with some provisions like, “It is a social movement, BUT without leaders driving it, but it does have some who have more influence on shared thoughts”.  I also had went with “thought matrix” and “tribal thought matrix” as another way to describe it.  I would say is weird and different than normal, because the Internet facilitates and accelerates things not done as much in the past.  And I can get REALLY  weird here, thinking of a meta-cognition rising out of things, the way Anonymous operates and says it is.  It might be that the Internet can give birth to Tulpa (thought forms) that function and manifest.  I have to wonder if MGTOW can end up being one also, and at what cost to individuals who consider themselves to be MGTOW.

The rabbit hole can go deep and in weird directions, and appears to do so, the more I think about it.

Anyhow, I am curious about how things changed from the original manifesto, which is the point of this point.  The other one on MGTOW having a life of its own would seem to be a better place to discuss what MGTOW is.