I’m very new here, and just getting a sense of MGTOW’s values and vision(s).  So marriage is viewed as a sucker’s deal for men, fine.  What about family life and monogamy, though, outside of the context of contemporary marriage?  Is there any sympathy among you gentlemen towards self-actualisation and fulfillment for men through the context of family life and monogamy with the mother of one’s children?  Isn’t that an acceptable route to The Good Life?

If not, that’s a bridge I can’t cross with MGTOW.

Thanks in advance.

My heart goes to all the fathers that are going through this hell. And to be honest, I also though I would not be able to “cross that bridge”, but all I have to do is look at the recent news and see how less and less rights fathers have regarding their own sons/daughters for me to see that I am taking the right position (at least to my life). Father’s can’t stop the mother from giving HIS kids to adoption, even though he has the means and THE WILL to take care of the child. Neither they can see the birth of his son/daughter, if the woman doesn’t want to. It’s all stacked against you. So nah, I’m out. Hoping that women develop parthenogenesis soon though, because they will need it. hehehe

fulfillment for men through the context of family life and monogamy with the mother of one’s children?

Yeah it’s great working your b~~~~ off in a job you hate, waiting for the day that she decides to make use the sexist laws that favor women to kick you out of the house, move in her new boyfriend, take all your past and future income,  deny you access to your children and to tell you that one of ‘your’ kids is actually the result of an affair she had 10 years ago. Then during the custody battle she only needs to turn on the tears for friends, family and the courts to treat her as the victim and you as the villain.

Apart from all those things, you’re right, it’s pretty f~~~ing fulfilling!

This is because the new user seems more concerned with defining MGTOW than “going his own way”, in which case the general consensus of MGTOW wouldn’t even matter to him.

I wish you all the best of luck, but as  you know MGTOW means = each man doing his own thing.

You will not get answers that you can group into a nice box while being statistically sound and truthful with your conclusions.

Bob, in short, you can be MGTOW and have kids if you’d like, without getting married. Getting married is the no-no.

However, getting financially involved with a woman through child rearing is another way for the state/government to enter your relationship. This is a no no.

So basically, do what makes you happy.

As far as I am concerned, its all about risk management. I would like to be a father and have a family. But with the current circumstances, even without marriage, it is simply not worth it. You don’t need to be married to end up with the bill and with the PAIN of PARENTAL ALIENATION. And it’s not just you that suffers, but YOUR KID TOO. My heart goes to all the fathers that are going through this hell. And to be honest, I also though I would not be able to “cross that bridge”, but all I have to do is look at the recent news and see how less and less rights fathers have regarding their own sons/daughters for me to see that I am taking the right position (at least to my life). Father’s can’t stop the mother from giving HIS kids to adoption, even though he has the means and THE WILL to take care of the child. Neither they can see the birth of his son/daughter, if the woman doesn’t want to. It’s all stacked against you. So nah, I’m out. Hoping that women develop parthenogenesis soon though, because they will need it. hehehe

I get all that, but I would assume that a resourceful and motivated man can find a way to actualise his desires for family even within the framework that’s stacked up against him you just laid out.  To throw your hands up in the air and give up on this aspiration is too defeatist, in my humble opinion.  Also, wanting to love and be loved by a woman and have a family is a lot different than, say, wanting to visit Rome or go skydiving.  This is at the core of many men’s desires, it’s not peripheral.  Bailing on these desires seems to me to be a huge sacrifice, and a surrender of something of vital importance to one’s pursuit of happiness.  To me, this is a very sad state of affairs when a man looks at the legal/cultural/political landscape and determines that having a family and finding mutual love with a woman isn’t worth the risk.

Bob, your intro is decent, but then you go straight into asking questions about MGTOWs opinion about the family unit. You must forgive me as “round here” whenever a new user immediately asks questions pertaining to FAMILY/DATING/MARRIAGE etc. it sends off red flags. This is because the new user seems more concerned with defining MGTOW than “going his own way”, in which case the general consensus of MGTOW wouldn’t even matter to him. I wish you all the best of luck, but as you know MGTOW means = each man doing his own thing. You will not get answers that you can group into a nice box while being statistically sound and truthful with your conclusions. Bob, in short, you can be MGTOW and have kids if you’d like, without getting married. Getting married is the no-no. However, getting financially involved with a woman through child rearing is another way for the state/government to enter your relationship. This is a no no. So basically, do what makes you happy.

That makes perfect sense.  Thank you, sir.

Please concede that it’s natural to want to grasp definitional parameters of terms/movements with which one is unfamiliar.  My objective here was to get a sense of understand of MGTOW’s take on family/monogamy.  As you’ve laid it out clearly… if a MGHOW wants that, he can go for it.  The red line is marriage.  Makes sense.

What about family life and monogamy, though, outside of the context of contemporary marriage?

Absolutely man! when does the next rocket leave? where’s the new planet?

I get all that, but I would assume that a resourceful and motivated man can find a way to actualise his desires for family even within the framework that’s stacked up against him you just laid out.

KeyMaster, you don’t have a WhiteKnight button.

Bobbing For Birthmarks wrote:

To throw your hands up in the air and give up on this aspiration is too defeatist, in my humble opinion.

Mmmmkay. I called it. Later dude. =)

You don’t get it, you don’t get it at all.

To throw your hands up in the air and give up on this aspiration is too defeatist

beats having them behind your back in silver bracelets!

Is there any sympathy among you gentlemen towards self-actualisation and fulfillment for men through the context of family life and monogamy with the mother of one’s children?

Well if you’re for sympathy or empathy, you will find more of it here (within MGTOW – other men who understand) than anywhere else. But have a look at your question – the sentence I quoted above – and see if you can spot the key.

It’s OK. I’ll wait.

Maybe you didn’t get it. And that’s OK too. Because it’s not glaringly obvious. So allow me to shine a light on it:

the mother of one’s children

Do you see the flaw in that? They are not YOUR children. They are HERS and the law will treat you that way. So it’s not our sympathy you should be looking for. Because it’s the courts that will have none. You are the sperm donor and the wallet, and that is ALL YOU WILL EVER MEAN.

How’s that for sympathy?

But wait there’s more….

“Monogamy”? Please. It’s still legal in this country for a woman to allow herself to get pregnant without your knowledge or consent. It simply doesn’t matter if you’re monogamous. She doesn’t have to be, and will f~~~ another guy when you’re not looking, toss you a baby and say “here, this is yours” – her mistake for which you will pay – by law – and if you refuse you will go to jail.

Therefore, the sperm donor, ATM and wallet (that’s you) is not considered “family”.
So it doesn’t really matter how much sympathy you can generate here, because by law, you’re f~~~ed.

Does that sound like self-actualisation and fulfillment to you?

When the kid is yours, you have no rights.
And when the kid is not yours, you’re the wallet anyway, and if you don’t pay, you go to jail.

F~~~ sympathy, and we will give you something to take with you that’s much more valuable.

1. NEVER F~~~ING DATE A SINGLE MOTHER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND

2. Your kids are not “your own” like you have been telling yourself.

Have no illusions. No man can afford to be this naive.
You can thank me some other time.