MGTOWWhat Freud Couldn't Figure Out – MGTOW https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/feed/ Mon, 08 Jun 2020 20:55:15 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=2.5.14-6684 en-US https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/page/494/#post-8728 <![CDATA[What Freud Couldn't Figure Out]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/page/494/#post-8728 Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:39:55 +0000 peterfa Freud finally claimed he couldn’t figure out women. He couldn’t figure out what they wanted. What I believe Freud ultimately did was demonstrate to the human race that people lie, and lie terribly. We lie to ourselves about who we are and why we do what we do. We cop out because we don’t want to suffer. This creates all the defence mechanisms, since we need to convince ourselves that which we really are isn’t really the case. For example, I might have tortured a puppy when I was a child. Then I grow up to be a dentist (classic example). That is an example of Sublimation.

Freud produced a model of the human psyche. He said that we had an Id, Ego, and Super Ego. Our Id is our brain, body, and the depth of who we really are. It’s the untamed passions, selfish, and pure. It’s sexual desire, it’s hunger, it’s power hungry. It’s only purpose is to advance me over everybody.

The Ego is the conscious part where I live. This is where I go to make up my mind about things. When I am hungry, I’ll find food to eat and when I want sex, I’ll find a mate to shag.

The Super Ego is the morality layer, which Freud says is created by society. A psychopath is evil because he or she never developed a Super Ego. Therefore, the psychopath only thinks about how to get his or he needs met, regardless of what society things is OK. The psychopath doesn’t experience anxiety because there’s no Super Ego.

The Ego is responsible for mediating between the Id and the Super Ego. If the Id has a desire, the Ego must find a way to resolve the Super Ego to satisfy the Id. In my previous example, Sublimation is used to channel that desire to create pain into something useful, the inherent pain of dentistry. Freud developed a whole slew of these.

What interests me is the reaction of people over time to Freud’s philosophy. Freud saw sexual abuse, since he was a physician so he can see that children were being abused. They often came up with stories about sexual abuse. He heard this in the adults he treated, but I’m not sure if he heard anything from those children. When he created his theory, he first said that these children were screwed up because they were molested, but the backlash caused him to change his theory. He then said they had lusts for their parents and these were fantasies. Maybe, in a lot of cases they were fantasies, but in our modern day, we know that many of those were authentic stories that should have led to punishment. Too bad that didn’t happen.

In time, Freud’s theories were discounted little by little. Freud’s theory is very modern and extremely frightening. It means you really are just an animal. To rescue us from this reality, Hinduism comes on the scene. Hinduism is in fact built on the notion of evolution. We’re all god, the whole Universe is god, and all the independent entities are really just drops in the ocean. Our job is to improve god by working off our karma and becoming better people. That is, we’re like mushrooms, sprouting up and looking like individual entities, but in reality we’re the product of an organism called a fungi. The fungi is a network of Rhizomes.

Karl Jung said our subconscious is actually god, and god is a vast network of Rhizomes, complete with memory and knowledge from all humans ever to live. We take a very active role in the process of evolving god (and in my opinion, this is a real f~~~-up kind of god. Thanks a lot!). Therefore, we’re connected to each other through the collective unconscious. I believe this is just a romantic escape from the heavy modern attitude of Freud’s philosophy.

Later, the theory that women have penis envy was discarded because scholars decided it was unscholarly to just say that.

In the future, Freud would be criticised since he admitted he had a lust for his mother, and said all boys go through that stage as necessary to develop into full humans. We just don’t like to think that, according to him, because incest is disgusting. Freud also had a theory of the creation of the incest taboo, as well as the creation of morality, the Super Ego. I’ll get to that in a bit, and it will lead to my philosophy later. Just notice how people react to his philosophy and begin to hide from it. I think it’s important although it’s not perfect.

Eventually we have other forms of psychology with their various scopes and intents. Jungian philosophy is still pretty popular even among those who disagree with it’s foundation because it’s a lot more positive and less dark and murky. It’s more New Age. Yet, Freud’s influence remains deeply embedded in our conscious, and in psychology. I believe he’s correct that we have the Id, Ego, and Super Ego, and that we have dangerous desires. I don’t agree with him that he finds these as natural and these defence mechanisms as maturity. I believe that the Id can be diseased, but even when it’s healthy, it’s naturally aggressive. It is necessary to learn how to control it’s impulses and healthy mechanisms learned to satisfy it, but the Ego mustn’t try to find ways to hide the truth from the conscience. The Ego must make peace with the Id, and forgive it when it’s time. The pain leads to growth and improvement of the overall person, and even generates the Super Ego.

Basically, we’re born narcissistic monsters, and grow up into good humans. Even our diseases can create awesome improvements. Freud was a good psychiatrist because he was keenly studious. His lust for his mother was a struggle for him, but he learned to give up his mother as a romantic object. Then he faces these women in his practice who falls in love with him, and he recognizes this for what it is, Transference. Then he realizes later that he’s fallen in love with them, which he recognizes as Counter Transference.

Transference is of primary importance for all who self-reflect. When you’re a child, you must learn how to survive. Your life may have a great many factors but in the end, you must find a strategy. You’ll learn about the immediate nature, about your parents, family, and all those who affect you. You learn how to navigate them, and your parents introduce you to the world. What you see in your parents you’ll probably transfer (magic word) on to the rest of the Universe. Others have an affect too. When you see in the moon and stars is what you see in your parents most likely. It can change though, but most people won’t dare change, because that’s work.

When you see two people argue, it’s very likely that their transferences conflict and now they’re trying to explain the Universe pragmatically (that is, how the Universe would have you dictate the nature of this or that). That is each one is trying to convince the other that his or her method of survival is the correct one, because duh, can’t you see the obviousness in the moon and stars?

If your life is chaotic, you’ll see the Universe as chaotic, and you’ll probably be an atheist, but if your parents were loving and kind, you’ll at least wonder if there’s a purpose to it all. If there’s a structure to the Universe, then there’s just got to be a purpose, a design, and obviously a Creator. You’re not in control of your ontology as you think you are. Yet, you can update it when you’re old enough. I highly recommend this (for example, your Red Pill).

I ask the reader at this point, who is very likely the audience of a MGTOW, to make a mental note about how upbringing heavily influences the Ontology of that person. I now have two issues suspended (remember how I mention Freud’s theory of morality?) Let’s continue with my point…

Freud recognized that people fall in love (lust, actually) and in their minds, they’ve created a god. This god looks just like the other person. I’m not sure how it’s related to transference, honestly, so I’ll lampshade this one. I suppose that the person transfers qualities to this other person and sees an image of that person far from the real thing. That person is “Cathected.”

When you cathect, you take a certain sense of possession. It takes your energy since you adore it. You can cathect anything. Minecraft I believe is a cesspool of cathecting. It’s popular because you can make things. Then you fall in love with your creation, your little world. It’s similar to getting a car, and taking extremely good care of it. You are in love with your car. You do this when you fall in love.

So, again, I assert the lampshade and dance over the logic hole. You can look up transference and lust.

Counter Transference is the opposite of that. Notice how Freud saw this and didn’t act on his impulses when he fell in love with his patient. He learned how to give up his romantic object. This made him a more mature man, and a keen psychologist. His Ego grew from his diseased Id.

To finish off the falling in love paradigm, it takes two years for this to wear off. All the cute things that person did, because annoying. That’s when the couple must decide to continue the relationship (and usually a marriage by this point). They decide to stick with each other and work through the problems. At this point, they are in true love. This is the correct paradigm and should be happening. I respect still the opinions of the audience of this site that this doesn’t happen any more. It’s not even important to my main point.

The idea that is important to my point is the idea of things that ought to be and comparing them to how they are now. This is my primary premise and I’ll use this to demonstrate my main point.

Freud’s theory of religion, morality, and incest is illustrated in a narrative, that in history at the dawn of an actual civilization, a man desired his mother, and then killed his father to have her. After his death, the man realized that this was dangerous and felt guilty. The Super Ego was created. Then in remorse he re-enacted the death of his father over and over again. In time, his father became remembered as a deity. That’s how god is tethered to morality, and desiring your mother is seen as dangerous. It’s taboo, so it gets shoved into our dark part of us. We don’t discuss it because it makes us sick.

I don’t believe that all people have a lust for the opposite sex parent, but that some do. Freud certainly did, and he built so much of his philosophy on it. He also incorporated false evidence from the children he served. Those children were raped and molested. Freud assumed this to be the typical case.

Freud lived in an era of sexual repression. It was highly misandrist. This was the time of masturbation belts and extreme modesty and privacy. Male sexuality was seen as dangerous. This was the Victorian Era. I think this made the right time for a person like Freud to recognize his philosophy. All that unhealthy, misandry, craziness, led to serious struggles for egos as they resolved the “dangerous” male sexuality with the rest of the world; and all the sexual abuse of children; and of the way the anxiety and impulses are hidden. This was neurosis upon neurosis. Neurosis to cover neurosis just to survive. You didn’t have to deal with your main layer of neurosis because you had another to cover the reality of that one up!

From the MRA videos and from the MGTOW videos, my world view has been flipped, upside down. I’m absolutely embarrassed that I didn’t even see the obvious. Everything that I blamed on men, was really a lie. Women get away with so much.

Since childhood, women are treated with so much infantilization. People are highly critical of men, but overly forgiving of women. Men are taught from a young age that their sexuality is dangerous, that they are perverts. Men are told that they are aggressive, dangerous, and criminal. Yet, statistic demonstrate the exact opposite.

First of all, women are just as violent, statistically. They also often initiate violence by proxy, allowing men to take the heat for committing the violence, and covering for them when caught.

Second, women are definitely as sexual as men. They like to show off their bodies, they like sex and orgasm, and they want to please men.

So, why then is the opposite recognized culturally?

We have a massive personality disorder. Men are corporately neurotic and women are corporately character disordered. Women learn to transfer their issues onto men. When they want sex, it’s the men who are perpetrators and causing sexual desire in them. When women sleep with someone either in drunkenness or impulse, she decides she was raped, so that she can believe she’s not attracted to that kind of man. In feminism, this is dialled up to 11. In RadFem, it’s a nightmare. These women are dealing with dangerous impulses (sadism), transferences from chaotic childhoods, and finally have found outlets for their diseases in a form that society approves: feminism. They project, transfer, deny, all that is really inside of them.

Women who are paranoid will insist the male gaze is upon them, or will believe that all men really just want to rape her. Also, the Patriarchy and Rape Culture. The Victim Complex is a huge player for most feminists. The ones who were raped or molested by males, of course.

Lastly, Feminism reflects that narratives women are given as they grow up. The Transference takes place. Even men do this in their way. So that’s probably why feminism, and the infantalization of women is so common and powerful.

Nobody does anything about this though, because it’s hard to deal with a personality disorder, and because the obvious. If you point out her flaw, you lose her approval. The audience of this site attests to what happens when a woman isn’t told she’s perfect all the time, or that sacrifices in her honer aren’t made to make her comfortable.

Many theories come about to explain how we got here, but I’m not going to go into them. My main point is that women suffer from serious disorders but nobody does anything to help them. Culturally we raise men and women differently so that women feel privilege and indifferent to men. Then they project their flaws into men. Men carry this on their backs.

The philosophy of MGTOW is how to be free as a man. That means staying away from women. This helps women though, because the MGTOWs do not feed the pathology of women, nor of the financial system which benefits women. It also gives the men freedom to see danger as it happens so that when economic disaster comes, it’s caught early, and the MGTOW moves himself into an advantaged position to either escape it, or to take advantage of it. Women will be forced to face reality. They will cry and demand protection and all these other things, but men will remain indifferent. Women will be bitter, but they’ll rise up to the challenge, and grow. That’s how you fix a personality disorder.

I’m not MGTOW though. I like it, and I want to learn the philosophy, because I hope to find a NAWALT, but I’m not afraid any more of not finding her. What I want to do is recognize the problem and make moves to counter it.

I’ve watched some of the MGTOW videos and it looks like the authors don’t see women as inherently wired to be toxic parasites. They see women as beings who could be mentally healthy, and not doomed. That is, they should do better. They should be treated as adults and given responsibility and the accountability that goes with it. If this happens when a girl is young, she’ll grow up to that NAWALT.

Even if women really are wired to be narcissistic toxic parasites that kill men slowly, this is still something from which could help them grow. Just like I said before that a diseased Id can cause great benefits to the person should he or she choose to acknowledge it and suffer the pain of that reality, so will these women be benefit. Maybe that’s why women are seen as nurturers: their parasitism sublimes into nurturing.

Still, I believe that women corporately are not healthy but mentally ill. They’re not being treated correctly so they learn that they don’t have to suffer. Women I believe are wired for nurturing more than men (but men are nurturing, though it probably demonstrates itself in disciplining and teaching).

Finally, again, I’m not MGTOW, so I want to reunite men and women together again they way I believe it was meant to be. I’m going to take a privilege now and depart from the main attitude of this site and go off on a point that is definitely not in sympathy with MGTOW. Men and women are supposed to be open, basically naked before each other. They should be intimate and reveal their darkest secrets and be with out shame with each other. They are to be intimate allies. Since women are now lost in the intellectual trap of personality disorders corporately, it’s up to men to save them. We don’t do this by saving them from their consequences, but by letting them suffer. That’s called tough love. We attack their narcissisms and foolishness by anticipating their moves and countering them. That’s bold love. When the curse of the intellectual entrapment is over, only then can we have our marriages again.

This attitude of mine doesn’t mean I don’t respect MGTOW, and it doesn’t mean I won’t empower them. I believe it’s a choice that doesn’t hurt anybody. I think it’s bloody arrogant to think that the MGTOW must naturally suffer with their choice that they make, that people are struggling just to recognize how this cannot happen. That’s breaking the cultural assumptions we have. I’ll never demand that a MGTOW does things my way. I’m just stating how I see things and what I want. Besides, the MGTOWs are definitely useful to achieve my goal, and a possibility should I never succeed in at least finding my NAWALT.

Freud couldn’t figure this out because he was deeply saturated in his culture. All the misandry of the Victorian Era (which is seen as morality, but it’s actually a pathology, and sadly borrowed by America) reflects in Freud’s theory of morality. I think it makes sense that he recognized what he did and gives light to the truth that his philosophy was leading towards. If we correct his theory and remove the misandry from it, his narrative that demonstrates the creation of morality stops making sense, but the true morality is now more visible. He was a little confused, but he did pretty well.

The truth is that we do lie to ourselves and cop out of the hard work of maturity and growth. Men don’t grow because they’re busy hiding from their sexualities and confusing of the chronically mixed signals that society gives to them (It’s OK when women do it, because that’s empowerment, and they are pure and so therefore demonstrate morality, correct sexuality, but don’t use that as a guide, though, because something). Women don’t grow because they’re do busy feeling like they’re not getting what they deserve (which men are expected of course to provide). Many men take the Blue Pill because they want the sex, the social status, and everything else hitherto.

We even take this to a whole new level. We look to women to decide what is moral and what is not. We see men as fumbling idiots compared to women. The sexuality of women is seen as healthy demonstrations of what we ought to be. We have made idols of them, and idolaters of ourselves. We worship their bodies and say to ourselves that the pleasure they give us is all we need, so we’ll dedicate ourselves to this. We’ll make sacrifices to this and worship it. It will guide us and heal us when we need. That’s exactly the role a god plays in theology, that that god’s nature demonstrates morality (unless it’s a polytheism, which it there’s a moral framework above it, and fails in pantheism, such as Hinduism, because god is changing and becomes more moral as we do so, which also suggests a moral framework above him or her); that from his nature comes moral law. Remember Freud’s theory of morality? The killing of the father and lust for mother is the foundation of morality since it’s recognized to be dangerous, and the Super Ego springs forth. That’s misandry. Again, it’s a Victorian Era which was very misandrous.

See how our society holds itself together with it’s mythology? See how our psychology is tethered to this? Our Transference which is our ontology? The god we created which is now failing us?

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/#post-8759 <![CDATA[Reply To: What Freud Couldn't Figure Out]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/#post-8759 Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:01:18 +0000 VileNord MGTOW is not a new thing, it is a new name to a way of life that certain men have chosen throughout history. Perhaps you do not wish to garnish yourself with such a label as MGHOW, and that is fine, but you sure do sound like a man who does things his own way. You are not alone in having the desire for a NAWALT unicorn. I too would love to have a female partner that compliments my weaknesses and all that beautiful jazz; this does not mean that I am a non-MGHOW.

I was raised über religious. When I left home, I drifted till I found myself caught up in the maelstrom of new-found atheism and all the hatred it came with. Learning philosophy, of any kind, was key to calming the turmoil inside. I make it sound dramatic of course, but we go about our lives just the same. My point is that I discovered the ideas of MGTOW years before I had ever heard the name MGTOW. The idea that a man has worth in simply being a man. We all believe that women have worth simply in being women, but the greatness of masculinity is still a dying concept. The idea that I don’t need a woman’s approval of the way I chose to live my life in order to be satisfied. The idea that I don’t have to take s~~~ from anyone if I don’t think its worth it. The idea that men can help women see the errors of feminism by giving them what you yourself called “tough love”. The idea that if I die tomorrow, at least I lived the way that made me happy.

Lust for comfort suffocates the soul

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/#post-8762 <![CDATA[Reply To: What Freud Couldn't Figure Out]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/#post-8762 Wed, 26 Nov 2014 15:30:11 +0000 peterfa Well, I do recognize that I have some MGTOW tendencies. It’s cost me though, and I’ve suffered a great deal of frustration. People don’t see the MGTOW in a very positive light.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/#post-9260 <![CDATA[Reply To: What Freud Couldn't Figure Out]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/what-freud-couldnt-figure-out/#post-9260 Tue, 02 Dec 2014 22:55:15 +0000 John Doe Freud used sex as a premise for most of his theories.  That is why he couldn’t understand women.

Power is the primary driver in people.   Everything from sex, motherhood, the household, etc. cannot be defined through reason but rather a women’s drive to be a “mini god”.

Control is what it is all about, forget sex.  Sex is a means to an end.

 

It’s cost me though, and I’ve suffered a great deal of frustration. People don’t see the MGTOW in a very positive light.

You’ll know your a full mghow when this above statement doesn’t matter to you anymore.

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