After the holiday, I started searching for answers. I came across some videos on YouTube and a little thing called MGTOW. I watched a few and agreed with everything that was being said about women and their affect on men. I watched more and dug deeper till eventually I changed my mind on everything. Since then, the world’s never looked more bleak.

I returned to work a week after the holiday and sat in for a video tele conference. After the presentation, two colleagues started asking questions of the presenter, but strangely enough proceeded to try and answer their own questions between themselves – taking up everyone’s time. My eyes were opened when I realized those two colleagues were in fact the only two men in the entire VTC of around 20 men. They would not shut up, and I could see men in offices around the nation rolling their eyes and rubbing their chins as husbands do when being talked to by their women.

I was recently looking up places to rent on Gumtree, an Australian version of Craigslist, and noticed a fair lot of adverts with preferred genders of female or outright stating they would not consider male housemates, because often these single women landlords would have ‘children’. Unbelievable discrimination! And the first question that popped into my head was, “and whose blood, sweat and tears went into that house of ‘yours’??”

I was watching a home renovation TV show where the couple was routinely asked what they wanted before planning the renovations. Immediately, the woman of the couple jumped in with her vision for the room, what spaces she wanted, the decor, furniture, colours, and what she wanted for her kid, while the poor man stood beside her smiling and nodding. Then post-renovation, the presenter asked the man what he thought, and he immediately turned to his wife to watch her cues and answered “I like it, it’s great!”

Then this weekend I caught up with a group of friends, some of them married couples. I noticed the wives and single girls started picking on the husbands and single guys, pointing out their flaws while everyone just sat around laughing like their quiet reactions were cute.

All this s~~~ makes me furious. Not because of the injustice to other guys who I just want to tell them to wake the f~~~ up, but because of how I’ve grown up because of it. My defence mechanism is and has always been to stay quiet in the face of bitches. Try to go un-noticed. Try to befriend them and avoid the bitchiness. And I did exactly that that day, and every other time a bitch called me a nerd upon first meeting me or tried to bully me into doing something she thought was right for me. I don’t want to be this quiet piece of s~~~ anymore. I’ve never been asked to stand up for myself. I’ve never debated my own opinions. And I hate it. I have no clue how to deal with any of this. And that’s why I’m angry. I have no f~~~ing role models. And I feel utterly lost.

Being a gay guy, I always, always had more female friends and relied on them more for comfort, support and companionship. I realize after seeing the true nature of women now that this is completely wrong. I can’t tell which of my friends are real or not. They try to catch up with me now and I wonder, do you want something from me? Are you really a friend? What is it I provide for you? I have only a few male friends, because I abandoned them all after a bad coming out and subsequent break up. The guys friends I do have are nerds, maybe purple pill, but not MGTOW, and I have no idea how to start conversations with them if I want to just talk about s~~~, feelings, frustrations or whatever.

I have a corporate job where I must conform to all this bulls~~~ just to save money for god knows what. My only redeeming hope for the future is an online business I have in ebook publishing which I’m desperately trying to make the most of now so I can one day move somewhere far far away from any Western country. I’ve always known I only live once. And I want to get out of this rut where I work just so I can survive. I want to leave some legacy, and while right now I want it to be the stories I tell, I don’t know if that’s enough.

I said I was feeling lost. But after all that, here I am. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Anyway, you’ll find a lot of great resources here…have fun.

“If you are not trying to get something from someone, it is very difficult for that person to cause you a problem.”

Usually, when I find someone causing me a problem, I try to identify whatever it was I was trying to get, and then get busy finding some other source for it. If you are trying to get sex, loyalty, respect, approval, acceptance, honesty, rational responsible mother for your children…etc from women, they can and usually will cause you all kinds of problems (as any man on this site can attest).

And, they can be very skilled at turning their problems into someone else’s problems…but usually only as long as someone else is trying to get something from them. Once you stop trying to get something from them, they lose a lot of that power. The most valuable thing that women have (some would say the only thing of value they have) to offer is sex. They know this and use it to create and transfer enormous volumes of problems.

But since you are gay, what the hell would you care? They got nothing you want. You are in the enviable position of being able to say things to them like, “Your pussy is worthless to me…keep the pussy and pay for your own drinks…dinner…rent… whatever…”.

Anything else you are trying to get from them, you can probably get somewhere else with much fewer problems from another gay guy (?) You’ll have to forgive me here for what might be a primitive perception of your situation. But I can’t see how straight women could cause you problem anymore than lesbian women or gay guys could cause problem for me. If I woke up tomorrow and every lesbian in the world had disappeared during the night, I would have to read about it in the paper or I wouldn’t even notice, because not even one percent of my quality of life is dependent on the cooperation of lesbian women.

Why would you make any part of your quality of life be dependent on the cooperation of a straight women…when they got nothing of any value to you??? The only thing I can imagine is that being gay, you want to fit into their social circles and be ‘one of the girls’ and have them as social friends. If that’s true, then they have something you want. But women, for the most part, treat each other like s~~~ too. They backstab and cut each other’s throats all the time. They’re known for that behavior among themselves. It may be that they have accepted you as one of their own, and are just treating you exactly the way they treat each other.

Like I said, I have no insight into how a gay guy’s mind works and may have just insulted or irritated you without even realizing it. I hope I haven’t as your insights are a learning opportunity for me. But if it turns out that I have understood your situation correctly, and it is that individual straight women have treated you no better than they have treated straight men, or each other… it would not surprise me at all.

If a person is an irresponsible, disrespectful, immature, dishonest, irrational, selfish tyrannical vag’ owner, then they are probably that way to every other person around them regardless of wether the other person has any interest in the vag’ or not… just my theory.

So talk with us until you feel comfortable enough to talk with them. MGTOWs are not judgemental – I don’t know what it’s like to be gay but I know what it’s like to be hetero and have the people (females) you want to be intimate with treat you like a steaming pile of crap. You become isolated emotionally because you are unconsciously protecting yourself from destructive emotions. Men commit suicide at a rate 4 times that of women because of our ingrained habit of internalizing pain and feeling so much more than women do upon breaking up with a woman we once truly loved.

So talk to us, man, we’ll try to help where we are able to.

I’m glad there is no delineation between gay and straight men. I think if all guys could get over their differences in their masculinity’ (ie. what woman so desperately ask of men) and stopped shaming each other for any effeminate traits, the faster we’d all get along. Sometimes I imagine a world where men get back to the good work, cooperating and advancing technology, creating art and building cities regardless of mens’ age, race, sexual orientation or whatever. But while the majority of boys and men still try to chase tail, that remains a utopian dream.

I like your questions about the gay male-straight female dynamic, especially since I’ve never contemplated this myself till now. This is my experience. I would say a lot of gay men assume or emulate the female mind. I think this is because at the top of the female desire pyramid is the straight alpha male, and this man also happens to be at the top of the gay male pyramid (for most). So in the gay world we end up seeing a lot of hypergamy especially between foreign young guys/old white guys and heaps of bitch behavior. A lot of the GLBT’s problems are all of their own doing. I must’ve subconsciously discovered this myself a long time ago, because I haven’t participated in that ‘world’ for years now.

Straight girls use gay men as emotional tampons. Unlike their straight boyfriends, the gays have no problem listening to their female friends talk for hours, and the guys can talk about their emotions too. I think also straight girls like having gay guys around especially if they’re good looking, because it somehow boosts their self esteem cause they think other women/men will see them as more desirable. Among my friends, I think these are the two biggest factors for me and my girl-friends hanging out. The female friends that have boyfriends only call on me when their boyfriends are working late or aren’t in town. Perhaps they’re just craving male attention that much .Wow, that’s eye opening…

I appreciate the suggestion that I’ve let my emotional side override my rational side. And I know this is my own doing. On one hand I don’t want to bottle up my emotions, but on the other hand I have barely anyone to talk to in RL. I’ve been burnt a lot in the past by showing too much vulnerability… around girls now that I think about it. One was actually the chick who ousted me in high school and made my adolescence hell. The others just can’t help but gossip. I don’t know why they do this. Actually, why are women so destructive?

I had my 25th birthday last December, and on the plane to and from Japan (we were flying AirAsia…) I had a lot of time to think about what I wanted out of life. Did I want to keep working? What did I really want to do? Things kind of came to a head today when my supervisor asked me to prepare a presentation next week I had no ownership over. I told him I didn’t want to do it and he pushed for it, saying I had no choice. I got back to my desk and had a panic attack. I promised myself after surviving those flights I would live life being authentic to myself. And a month after getting back I’m already tamed by corporate bull s~~~ again? No thanks. No money is worth sacrificing the dignity of a man. I’m leaving that department, that’s 100% certain. But I’m tossing up between resigning straight up or transferring to another department who’s shown interest in me already. I know I’ll learn more interesting stuff, make me more employable but I’ll be a corporate slave still. I have no idea what to do. And I know this is my decision. But this is the kind of s~~~ I turn to my female friends for support. I’d rather be vulnerable here than in-front of a flock of shaming females. I don’t know why I wrote this out, but I guess just putting it in black and white helps me plenty.

Are many guys here working in the corporate world? How are people living without playing the rat race game?

Again, thanks for reading. I really appreciate the support here.

You said

“But this is the kind of s~~~ I turn to my female friends for support.”

Good luck with that, Your better off here. They will only support you if it helps them.

In my life I work with corporations, individuals, and also for myself to make the money needed to support myself. If you think about new ways to make money and you are smart about it, you can free yourself from corporate oppression. as long as you are working for them th0ugh, you have no right to do anything other than what they tell you to do.

Though long retired now, I was a computer consultant to Fortune 100 companies and had a lot of experience dealing with the corporate world, though fortunately my consultancy role allowed me to be mostly free of the political strife that often goes on, because I was not perceived as a direct threat to anyone (except other consultants – lol). But before that I was an employee when I first started out, so here’s my advice to you: it’s only a rat race if you’re one of the rats. Don’t be a rat. Work productively in whatever capacity you’re employed, leave your anger at home but if you seriously do not like your job than always have another lined up before you quit, especially these days. Hell, look at what the CEO of Gallup just said about the horrible unemployment in the U.S.:

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/181469/big-lie-unemployment.aspx

While I had some jobs I liked more, they were only a means to an end, and the end for me was always clearly defined in my head: early retirement, almost 20 years before others commonly have retired in the past. One year I worked the equivalent of about 9 hours a day, every single day of that 365 day year (massive overtime on a Y2K project), and I never got frustrated or angry with any corporate s~~~ because my goal was the only thing that mattered. You need to define your goals in life because that’s what helps you get through the low spots. I had learned through my own experiences but especially those of other people that it’s great if you can find a job you love but for the most part work sucks and you deal with it, period. In my youth I worked at a car wash, was one of those guys who scraped your plate at a cafeteria (Morrison’s in the early 70’s in New Orleans), was a busboy at a steak restaurant, a fry cook at Popeye’s Chicken and even later helped deliver pianos. All of those jobs except the piano gig SUCKED, but it put money in my pocket to help pay for college and I knew I wouldn’t be working at them for all my life.

I don’t know specifically what you do for a living, but you mention ‘corporate’ as if it’s something evil – it isn’t, it’s just a collection of people earning a living producing a product that other people need. You can run into the same and worse s~~~ working for a small business, and if you want real hell then work for yourself (80 hour weeks for years and often with little profit until you get the business going). Personally I was perfectly happy going to work in the corporate world (except for suits and ties – I f~~~ing detest them!) because those businesses were stable and paid me good money in return for my work. I usually didn’t give a flying f~~~ who took credit for my work, though I will admit that there were 2 times that some other consultant actually lied about my work and I got both of them fired, not by ratting them out per se but by proving their allegations were purposefully false. One of them was a lazy co-worker, the other was actually managing a high-profile project I was a key part of, and that SOB implied to upper management that I wasn’t performing so he could cover for the fact that he literally had done almost nothing on the project but instead was out of the office visiting his own consultant employees at other sites. Unbeknownst to this rat was the fact that upper management had already identified me as the key producer on the project, having been given the most difficult programming to do, and he was out the door within 2 weeks. Other than that, I got along with everyone because I was happy knowing the Exit Door to my goal was not far away no matter what my problems at work might be.

So here’s my advice: transfer to the other department, pick up those skills and take your sweet time to figure out what it is you want out of life and the path forward for you. Never leave a job where the boss might not give you a glowing recommendation for you. Take the emotion out of your decision – think rationally. You’re only 25, the life ahead of you will likely be more than twice the time you’ve lived so far and you need to make a good decision now. Be extremely careful of basing an important life decision on what some woman tells you because usually things are far different for her – she’s likely to want to support you emotionally (irrationally) and encourage you to jump ship, because the average woman always thinks she has a backup to her bad decisions: a man, either a boyfriend or husband whose resources she can use to avoid the consequences of her poor decisions, and men in general don’t have that backup. And when you think you’ve got it bad just look around you at all the truly s~~~ty jobs men do on a daily basis as a reminder that it’s really not that horrible of a job. Aaron Carey of Asshole Consulting often uses the term ’embrace the suck’ to describe this.

Don’t be a rat, don’t be a slave and don’t let your emotions get in the way of making the right decision. Good luck!