MGTOWathiest mgtow – MGTOW https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/feed/ Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:01:50 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=2.5.14-6684 en-US https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/page/407/#post-32921 <![CDATA[athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/page/407/#post-32921 Sun, 22 Mar 2015 00:48:41 +0000 harpo-my-"SON" this topic is for atheist Its not a place for debates, even though KeyMaster has said religious debates and discussions are welcome no matter how heated..I have read a few of these and participated but that’s not why I started this topic…I have a few questions and then I will bow out and come back from time to time for any answers you may give….As a man with a strong opinion about everyone having the right to their own beliefs. I shall not come in the “atheist mgtow” room and start criticizing and attacking anyone for any answers or discussions they post. This room is for athiest and I am a man of faith, I will respect your right to say anything you desire about religion and those who practice it as long as you don’t go next door and do it…..I will ask the same respect for the “mgtow of faith” room I will create next door…..these two rooms become my experiment in boundaries while at the same time creating a safe discussion space for non-believers and believers alike……Now my Questions what are you thoughts on these articles? and most importantly

Is atheism hatred of religion and religious people?

Do you Hate the people next door?

Can you refrain from going next door and telling them?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/12/01/do-atheists-have-faith-2/

http://www.strangenotions.com/do-atheists-have-faith/

http://www.strangenotions.com/is-atheism-a-belief/

 
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I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-32960 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-32960 Sun, 22 Mar 2015 04:52:45 +0000 Qbeck01 Atheism is simply a lack of believe in all gods. People come to atheism for all sorts of reasons, some good, some bad. Some atheists come to there lack of belief because they where abused when they were young, for them hate may be a thing. I think most reason their way to atheism; they care about what is true and not what is comfortable. They may hate the irrationality of faith. I myself find irrationality the bane of humanity.

I don’t hate people for what they say or believe. Judge people by their actions; I hate the religious who murder cartoonists.

As to the last link you posted. They misunderstand agnosticism. It’s an epistemic claim and says nothing about belief. One can be a theistic agnostic or you can have an atheistic agnostic. The first speaks to belief the other to the impossibility of knowing.

The problem with agnosticism is it claims to know something about god; that it is beyond knowing. This is a contradiction.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33034 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33034 Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:13:18 +0000 harpo-my-"SON" It’s irrational to think we should all agree and have the same beliefs..or that someone else is intellectually inferior simply because of there beliefs…I find that the beliefs of others cannot effect me emotionally…Religious debates are fun for me for this reason…the winner in those debates is not the one who has more proving points or factual evidence for or against their beliefs or lack of beliefs, but the one who controls his emotions is the most intellectually superior…The one who is moved to intolerance and anger, they are like  a child having a tantrum…I have witnessed both sides do this the faithful believers and the atheist….Nothing is ever proven or dis proven, except who is more in control of their own emotions….

atheistic agnostic= bulls~~~ theoretical physicists

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33676 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33676 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:23:19 +0000 flamesabers I wouldn’t have such a problem with religious people if they kept their beliefs private. I don’t believe in Santa Claus either, but I don’t have any objection with parenting telling their children about Santa Claus. Nobody knocks on my door to ask me if I’m on Santa’s naughty or nice list. Nobody is trying to pass laws or discriminate against people as a result of their belief in Santa. Nobody is trying to blockade the progress of science because of their beliefs in the story of Santa. There is no death penalty for one giving up belief in Santa or drawing cartoons of Santa. If the vast majority of theists were as benign with their beliefs as the believers of Santa, I suspect the debate between theists and atheists would be relatively insignificant.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33708 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33708 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 14:23:00 +0000 Qbeck01 “It’s irrational to think we should all agree and have the same beliefs”

I disagree. I think it reasonable that we should all believe in gravity, that the sky is blue, that the moon orbits the earth, etc. Reason and evidence will lead people to the same beliefs; Those that are irrational will simply go off the rails into delusion.

“…or that someone else is intellectually inferior simply because of there beliefs”

If someone beliefs something with insufficient evidence then they are negligent. If they believe something counter to reason and evidence then their beliefs are inferior.

“I find that the beliefs of others cannot effect me emotionally…Religious debates are fun for me for this reason…the winner in those debates is not the one who has more proving points or factual evidence for or against their beliefs or lack of beliefs, but the one who controls his emotions is the most intellectually superior…The one who is moved to intolerance and anger, they are like  a child having a tantrum…”

So you think Trolls are winners? The purpose of debate is not to provoke emotions and the one that does is just a troll not intellectually superior.

“Nothing is ever proven or dis proven, except who is more in control of their own emotions….”

Things are proven and dis-proven all the time; I’m sure you’ve heard of science and mathematics. I hope you’re not the “everything is subjective” type.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33709 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33709 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 14:31:45 +0000 RoyDal There are different categories of beliefs. Gravity is an observable fact (one category). Deity cannot be directly observed (another category).

Believing (if that is even the right word) in gravity is a far cry from believing in some god or another.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33731 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33731 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:53:53 +0000 Qbeck01 Categories of belief, unless you ascribe to a William James philosophical pragmatism or other unique epistemology, belief is one category varying only in strength.

Believing something without reason and no evidence is, by definition, irrational. And being lead by irrationalities separates people from the real word and leaves them stranded in delusion.

The radical feminist ignores evidence and reason and see where that has left them.

Reason is the only path to truth. In the feminist, we see what happens when emotions replace reason.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33834 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-33834 Tue, 24 Mar 2015 22:36:07 +0000 John Doe Faith and reason are integral parts of humanity.  We operate on both.  To be short in either one or the other is damaging.  They do not contradict each other, but rather complement each other.

The “rational” man has no choice but to have faith in the observations and opinions of others.   One man cannot experience or observe everything.

The man of “faith” has no choice but to explain his faith through reason, otherwise it is blind and subject to personal whim.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-34033 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-34033 Wed, 25 Mar 2015 15:54:10 +0000 Qbeck01 While it is true there are fundamental axiom we must accept, this is not faith. They are considered necessary starting points. We assume, as an axiom that the external world does exist and we are not brains in a vat. Believing in Solipsism is an unfalsifiable position to hold.
One does not need to experience everything to be rational; that’s a rather silly point to make.
We extrapolate our experiences. Science is based on this deductive reasoning. Ohm’s law holds true in the electronic device you are using and it will hold true with electronic devices you don’t experience.
Explaining your faith with reason is called apologetic s. People who do this put the cart before the horse. When you start off with a conclusion first you leave yourself open to many fallacies in your reasoning. (see Confirmation bias) It’s best to draw conclusions from the evidence.
Faith is irrational. If you’re going to hold a position without a good reason, tentatively, until you investigate a proposition then faith is justified. Any position held because of faith should not be believed until there is sound reasons justifying that belief.

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https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-34086 <![CDATA[Reply To: athiest mgtow]]> https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/athiest-mgtow/#post-34086 Wed, 25 Mar 2015 19:40:04 +0000 Terminal Meme There’s a wide array of thinking models (Theism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Pantheism, Nihilism, etc ad nausea)  You’ve got plain old theism covering thousands of versions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They can’t all be right, as they make incompatible claims, and if a man must choose one, he should expect eternal damnation as a matter of probability. Mormons, Sunni Muslims, Calvinists and Orthodox Jews, to name a few, insist that all the others are doomed. Which flavor of ice cream do you want your cavity from?

It’s important to point out about atheism, which is merely the lack of belief in any god, that there are many opposed groups who claim the title. I prefer to loosely  identify two types of atheists. This separation isn’t to suggest people don’t fall in the grey area or that some atheist can’t be categorized this way:

One group has a purely emotional injury and adopted the title out of vengeance towards the church. You know them well; homosexuals and women. But if the church had dogma that didn’t offend them, they would be totting the cross hell or high water. This group does have some major points against the perpetual violation of human rights and moral negligence. There’s no shortage of proof for their claims but it’s a whole different topic.

The other group has a purely intellectual problem. You’ll hear them say things like, “The absence of evidence IS evidence for absence.” They have a point. For some time now, we’ve been able to detect everything. Even “dark energy” is measurable from our tiny planet, slinging galaxy clusters across open space. The intellectual atheist has a true gift for objective realism.

The main grievance is not only that the religious can’t surface the simplest requisite of some evidence but their whole narrative about the existence of such a being is totally anthropomorphic. In our sight of an incomprehensibly massive universe, it’s truly a foolish insult to deem it constructed. That assertion is merely us looking in the mirror. He creates, he destroys, he judges, he sacrifices, he loves, he expects loyalty and of course he had to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. He’s everything we are and everything we’d foolishly want to be.

Just picture homo Australopithecus, 3 millions years ago. He sees tasty fruit growing on a tree and thinks the tree has snubbed him when it won’t produce more fruit. We still do this, it anthropomorphic instinct. He sees the sun rolling through the sky casting light; which he assumes is for his benefit. Philosophers, with the help of telescopes and microscopes, no longer have to query in this vain way, thinking we’re da bomb, hopelessly enshrined in arrogance. To account for, this once adaptive characteristic turned flaw, we have to respect objective realism and what that road can lead us to.

Morals have a lot to do with beliefs. Beliefs can be translated to values. Values can be accounted for by facts. It’s not wrong to say, “It’s a fact that Muslims are immoral for stoning women to death for adultery.” In no sense does stoning her contribute to her well-being. I could on at length but it’s been thoroughly animated by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and many others.

At some point soon, we are going to have to globally agree that blinding little girls with acid for learning to read, or mutilating their genital, or preventing stem cell research that can save millions of people, or punishing people fro smoking weed or prostitution (victim less crimes) — we’re going to have to admit that these gifts from religion are antithesis to the progress of our species. The Christians have admittedly gotten better since their 14th century barbarism, but if they had possessed biological or nuclear weaponry. This is exactly what’s happening with a literally twice as violent dogma, held by 100’s of millions of people at the exact same insecure, 700 year adolescence phase. Islam will unmake this world if we don’t wise up and drop the bronze age delusions. The Christians can say nothing about the moral behavior of Muslims apart from “their praying to the wrong god.” If they were praying to the right god, what they are doing would be good apparently.

Thanks for reading. I quoted without citing Sam Harris here so I just want to give him due credit for borrowing his words.

 

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